Interesting news

ara3n

Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.0 Becomes Two Releases

Microsoft Dynamics™ NAV 5.0 becomes Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.0 and Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.1.

* Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.0 ships in March 2007
* Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.1 ships in Q4 CY2007.

Microsoft Dynamics 5.0 will ship with the C/SIDE client, all the new application features, Microsoft Office 2007 integration, and a technical preview of Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.1.

Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.1 will ship with the new client, 3-tier architecture and web services.

Hmm

kine

:-) New client postponed? Please, can you tell us the source?

Luc_VanDyck

PartnerSource: https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource ... sed_launch

Phenno

Luc Van Dyck wrote:

PartnerSource: https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource ... sed_launch

Well, we spent a lot of time talking about new 5.0 version and technical features that will be available with this version. But what about business related features and problems (or bugs)? Kind of we are loosing focus (and primary goal) by doing this. Goal is to satisfy customers needs and boost up it's business, not to play with new technologies (though, I must confess that we are, primary, IT persons and we have a shine in our eyes when we see new technology )

Seems to me that now, we will have few months to talk about 5.0 which gives us not too much of new technologies (I suppose) so we can bring focus back to business related problems...

Waldo

Luc Van Dyck wrote:

PartnerSource: https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource ... sed_launch

Didn't know about this and I must say ... I'm disappointed. How am I going to explain this to our customers and prospects ...

Seems to me that now, we will have few months to talk about 5.0 which gives us not too much of new technologies (I suppose) so we can bring focus back to business related problems...

OK, that's a way to give it a positive swing ...

kine

And there will be "5.1 preview" as part of 5.0 - it means, you can test the new functionality and be prepared for it. You can show that to your customer, you can "use" it on your own risk...

Waldo

Depends in which format the preview is. Powerpoint? As long as we can prepare ourselves for it (technically as well).

You're right ... also about the "own risk", off course.

Miklos_Hollender

Phenno,

the whole point of Navision is that it's rather an ERP development environment with some premade features than a finished product. Of course they are marketing it as if it would be, but the only successful partners I saw were who never believed it

Therefore, if you realize it and organize your team as the ratio of consultants and developers to 1:2, which looks mostly reasonable, then technological improvements providing more (and easier) development options are more important. I think Navision currently has 3 huge problems:

1) SQL performance - I think only a complete redesign of the client can really help, as it's really f***ed (when they started the SQL version as Navision A/S for MS SQL 7, Microsoft had to release a service pack just for them because without it it had been completely impossible, because it's so different) therefore I hope the 3-tier will help about it

2) limitation of the commands and objects, having to mess around with external controls to make f.e. graphical stuff, .NET integration promised form 5.0 can help it I think

3) hard to integrate to external systems - the service-oriented approach will help, I think

David_Singleton

ara3n wrote:

Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.0 Becomes Two Releases

Microsoft Dynamics™ NAV 5.0 becomes Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.0 and Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.1.

* Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.0 ships in March 2007
* Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.1 ships in Q4 CY2007.

...

Hmm

Is this a litteral quote? if so, it also has one other hidden agenda. Note that the ™ is missing? It may sound pedantic, but in the Vista world I am sure we all know that problems that silly symbol has caused [*]. So it looks like we are not going to have the same issue. And we will still be able to use the command line. Off topic I know, but good some good news.

Maybe part of the reason for the delay, is that they are still not able to work out the full implications of a name change 8-[

[*] if you don't know the issue, go to a DS prompt and try to type :

[b]CD "c:\program files\Microsoft Dynamics™ NAV[/b]

](*,)

DenSter

ara3n wrote:

Hmm

You said it... this is VERY dissappointing...

On the other hand, there will now be a large C/SIDE customer base on 5.0 version of the application, so this is somewhat of a postponement of having to learn new things. Of course for those of us that have been waiting for the new technology that's not good news.

Waldo

Guess we have enough time to prepare this, don't we ...
https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource/products/navision/newsevents/news/MSDYNAV_prepare_for_5.0_release.htm

ara3n

How long have they been working on 5.0? Now they get one more year to fix and stabilize the product. I’ll be expecting a solid product.

Since this new client will be used in AX and GP, will they also be postponed? GP suppose to be released in Q1 as well?

The Sp1,2,3 releases for 4.0 have been really disappointing. I guess we’ll see another sp4 release.

Does this also mean that wave 2 will be postponed by 1 year.

David_Singleton

ara3n wrote:

...

The Sp1,2,3 releases for 4.0 have been really disappointing. I guess we’ll see another sp4 release.
...

Better might be just to think of 5.00 as 4.00 SP4/5

Its similar to the 1.4 / 2.00 / 2.01 debacle.

Waldo

All I care about momentarily is the SQL Server integration.

They are stating that, when we're on 6.0 and there will only be the new client on 3-tier architecture, SQL Server is the only possible database option.

It's time that they take this a little bit more serious.

David_Singleton

Waldo wrote:

All I care about momentarily is the SQL Server integration.

They are stating that, when we're on 6.0 and there will only be the new client on 3-tier architecture, SQL Server is the only possible database option.

It's time that they take this a little bit more serious.

Honestly I don't see that happening. Recently Microsoft commited to one major upgrade per year. At that rate 6 should be released by the Q1 2008. For many Navision clients the move to SQL makes good sense, but for a good percentage it does not. Think in terms of a product that has over 1,000,000 installed users, (I don't know how many servers that is, but you can bet its a lot) and imagine the impact of moving all of them to a SQL environment in 12 months. It just is not going to happen.

For sure we will see many users moving to SQL once 5.1 is released, but clearly Microsoft want to continue to develop the support and unpgrade chanell, and killing C/SIDE database will be a huge blow to that. For many clients in the 5-20 usrs category, moving to SQL is just not an option, so in effect what it would do is say to people "Hey lets look at products other than Navision" (yes they will also probably be SQL, but ...) I can not see that Microsfot want to open that can of worms, so I can see support for C/SIDE continuing for some time now.

What I do see in 6.00 is a commplete seperation of the product into to code bases, a C/SIDE one (basically what we have now), and all new development on a new SQL code base. After all, we need to move to ROW locking, and the current code base can not support that.

Anyway, things will be more clear next week. I will be updating my Blog everyday with information from Convergence for those interested in 5.00 progress. http://dynamicsusers.org/blogs/singleton/default.aspx

Waldo

Well, I guess the chance is I will meet you there .

Something else.
We know that the Dynamics clients is 3-tier. The service tier (=second tier) runs on IIS. C/SIDE compiles managed c# code, published on the service tier.

My question is ... how is c# going to connect to the native database? C/FRONT (don't see that happening)? C/ODBC (don't see that happening either)? I only see that happening on SQL Server, to be honest. So if they want to support the native database, they will have to keep supporting the native client (imho).

That's why I'm so interested in having the SQL Server integration perfectly running ... and Microsoft should too.

About supporting the old customers ... untill which version is microsoft supporting Navision at this point? 3.70? (I honestly don't know, so I'm asking).

David_Singleton

C/FRONT is just a C++ library. So the C/FRONT library will be converted to C#, and the new client will just tie straight in. I assume Microsoft will release the C# version of the library.

Waldo

Straight from FAQ:

Q: What do you mean by “technical preview”?
A: A technical preview is a version of the product that is only available to partners and may not be used to sell Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.1. It enables partners to become familiar with the new client and how it works before it is officially released ...

Joe_Mathis

Hi Everyone,

I'm at Directions in Atlanta, Georgia right now.

They've discussed the release and it looks like the delay is happening to address concerns about getting the tools for developers.

There were quite a few things about 5.1 that didn't sit well with me at first, but as they are now saying that it will be released as a beta in March, and that they will delay it until next year hopefully they will have the tools for us.

As it stands, you DO NOT have to know C# .net to develop, they have written a converter that will interpret the c-side to a C# object and then it compiles that for you.

So you still develop with your familiar tools and C-SIDE.

I plan on learning SQL Reporting very well though because I wasn't too thrilled with the reporting aspects of using the C# based version. But they still have a year to figure that out too, and we'll have 6 months before the release to figure it out ourselves.

We actually saw it running, and saw the code in code units, table records, forms, and reports. The structures of the objects are the same for the most part, and they've added more objects. I can't remember everything right now as it was a long night of drinking yesterday But I'm not worried about 5.1, it may be a little tougher to deal with than what I'm used to, but it was tough when I started C-side too.

I will try to answer what I can, but I wouldn't get too worked up.

Joe

garak

In 5.xx we develop in C/AL and there is an converter wich interpret my c/al code to C#. OK

But is it possible to include my own C# Code :?:

Has somebody an Pre-Release Document or *.wmv or an other presantation wihch shows the new functionality of Dyn. Nav 5.xx :?:

Regards

Joe_Mathis

They way they presented it you could, but they had said earlier that you would not be able to.

What we saw was a beta build, and I think they are still deciding what would be good to include.

My opinion of what they are doing is that they are trying to keep it viable for the person who converted from being an end user to being a reseller, and then minor developer, to still develop. So they will stick with the fairly simple structures that these people know, (at least at first) and then encourage them to learn the .Net

I also do not believe that you would be able to create a C# that would then translate back into a c-side object for future upgrading, which would mean that the Navision is no longer uniform development. If they went that way then they would necessarily need to close down the code (no more open source) and we would end up programming to API's and such. I really don't want that. Our solutions would then be additions instead of customizations. The screens would be the same for all installations... I just don't think I would want that. The beauty of Navision is that we can bend it to our will.

I don't know of any document as of yet but they said there would be free documentation for Partners on Partner source in January, including a what's new and some development manuals.

Joe

Alex_Chow

Not just free documents, but training material will be available for download for free on Partnersource.

Not sure about worldwide, but in the US, they will become available starting next month (November).

Mbad

ara3n wrote:

I guess we’ll see another sp4 release.

Nope.

Waldo

You're so sure?

Alex_Chow

Well, I bet they're working on version 6.0 now already.

Marije_Brummel

No they are not...

ara3n

They haven't released 5 yet, it has been postponed twice now. It should have been released in October. If they are working on 6.0, then MS has totally lost touch with what customers want right now.

Miklos_Hollender

"then MS has totally not in touch with what customers what right now"

That wouldn't exactly be news, would it?

Marije_Brummel

How can you say that with 53000 customers and 1000000 users?

What other products have that?

Waldo

I was thinking the same thing.

If one company knows what customers want and how to bring it to them ... :whistle:. They didn't become market leader thanks to Bill's beautiful blue eyes, you know.

ara3n

Well it wasn't MS that got Navision to where they are. And the people who are in charge now are not necessary the same people before MS bought Navision.