Naked action in brattleboro: a mirror of human sins

johnson_alonso

Dear All,

I wanted to not post any more replies to this thread but I must do small note:...

Kine is correct. Better for you all to agree with my opinion and we are all together agree to prohibit and prevent and even preemptive nudity action in public area and other relates to sex expose in the open place and can be seen by public...

Rgds,

Savatage

johnson alonso wrote:

Savatage wrote:

But many don't feel it was choice but a feeling they were born with. If it was a family member would you really hate your own Aunt , Uncle, cousin, brother, sister, son or daughter?

I will not hate them.

I guess I read this wrong then

johnson alonso wrote:

I hate gay and lesbian..it is evil and lucifer spirit. (repent from your gay and lesbian).

johnson_alonso

Savatage wrote:

...
I guess I read this wrong then
...

You aren't wrong. Love your enemy. that is what in my mind. The first human in garden of eden have had choice. To follow their Creator or Devil.
Now, I will not hate them because I have told them is wrong then it is up to them to follow the truth or not.

David Cox wrote:

It's not about religion or politics, but freedom to speak and express, I have a gay daughter and my grandson has a gay father, they are the best people you could meet, they made and make thier own choices in life, and are happier than some that followed the "status quo" rather than thier hearts

I can't imagine how the gay and lesbian will have children :shock:

Adopted children are their choice but will it be satisfied ? :-k


Come on guys, all of you that read and posted, don't get shocked or surprised or offended for this posted message I've sent. Serious but relax. it is general chat. I just post my opinion and dislike about nudity in the public area, gay and lesbian according my faith, logic and good thinking.



Rgds,
Johnson

Savatage

johnson alonso wrote:

Now, I will not hate them because I have told them is wrong then it is up to them to follow the truth or not.

I think that's the root issue.
Why must your truth be everyone's truth?
Why must your beliefs be everyone's beliefs?
Why must they be wrong and you be right?

many people believe in the big bang theory and not the creation theory what makes one theory better than the other?

if gays & lesbians want to adopt then god bless them. To provide a loving home for unwanted children is great. Who's to say what makes a person feel satisfied we are all different.

David_Cox

johnson alonso wrote:

I can't imagine how the gay and lesbian will have children :shock:

Adopted children are their choice but will it be satisfied ? :-k

Come on guys, all of you that read and posted, don't get shocked or surprised or offended for this posted message I've sent. Serious but relax. it is general chat. I just post my opinion and dislike about nudity in the public area, gay and lesbian according my faith, logic and good thinking.

Adopted no, you work it out

You are correct you have the freedom to express yourself in words, in this is debate, if it offends people, you still have the freedom of expression, but then this thread is about "freedom of expression in Brattleboro", not about faith, logic and good thinking.

That is freedom and diversity, what is offensive to one is not to others! [-o<

Kowa

Sexual orientation is nothing you choose by will , it is a part of you. If you a member of a sexual minority, it does not make life easier, but there are lots of other aspects , your character, social skills etc. far more important in everyday life and in educating your children than sexual preferences. Here in Germany two large cities ( Berlin and Hamburg) have gay mayors, the one in Hamburg is even a member of the Conservative Party. They were elected by voters who mainly are heterosexual but have learned during the past decades to disregard these facts and concentrate on the things that really matter.

Miklos_Hollender

Jonson,

Seems we have substantial cultural differences. I mean from my cultural viewpoint - which is Libertarianism - muslims forcing women to wear burkas and denying them of education is at least as offensive as public nudity for you. You consider my liberal culture immoral and I consider your culture oppressive. (To be really honest, I don't know if it's happening in Indonesia as well, I mostly mean Saudi Arabia etc.)

What I'd like to suggest it let's BOTH of us be tolerant and patient and accept these cultural differences. I'm not exactly happy about it - I truly believe in freedom - but we have no other chance. I cannot change your culture and you cannot change mine. Therefore, the best option is to mutually accept it and not argue, not critize, but just mind our own business, and only talk about those things we are both are able to talk without offending each other (Navision, .NET etc.) and let's avoid talking about the sensitive topics, let's only talk about the culture-neutral tech topics mibuso.com is really meant for. I'd even suggest closing this topic down.

David_Cox

Miklos Hollender wrote:

I'd even suggest closing this topic down.
muslims forcing women to wear burkas and denying them of education

Close the topic, would that not be oppressive and censorship, the very things you are against?

Is not the comment on muslims, sterotyping them, this is not so for all muslims, only for the extreemists, most home born and migrant muslins are great people, who contribite and adapt to the host countries way of life!

Healthy Debate and expressing different viewpoints, is not be a thing that all people can enjoy! 8)

Miklos_Hollender

Not really, just as high security measures at airports are not considered oppressive, because sometimes the peace of the public space is more important.

As for the stereotypisation, yes of course it is: I wanted to demonstrate with it why not to stereotypise our society based on a couple of naked people with a counter-example.

Arjan_Somers

johnson alonso wrote:

Kine is correct. Better for you all to agree with my opinion and we are all together agree to ...
Rgds,

Maybe it's best to agree that we all disagree, and leave it by that (eg, close this thread)

I work saturdays, and always use them to read up on mibuso, and although i enjoy reading some general chatter, and i respect everyone's right to have their own beliefs, this is not the forum to have religious debates.
At least not the kind held here. I think moderators should close a thread immidiately when it hold statements like: I hate gay ppl.

I am always open to debate, but this is just plain offensive. There are virtually no arguments given by johnson alonso. So this won't help anybody, it will only generate hate.

So moderators, please close this thread (and possibly even delete this) and just talk about programming if we can't have proper debates about our personal beliefs.

johnson_alonso

Miklos wrote:

Jonson,

Seems we have substantial cultural differences. I mean from my cultural viewpoint - which is Libertarianism - muslims forcing women to wear burkas and denying them of education is at least as offensive as public nudity for you. You consider my liberal culture immoral and I consider your culture oppressive. (To be really honest, I don't know if it's happening in Indonesia as well, I mostly mean Saudi Arabia etc.)

It seems naked and freedom are culture of western or europe or US etc, is that what you mean ?
Well, if it is so, it is really confusing.
Everybody will be laugh if you said naked and freedom are culture.
What will you find in the naked cultures ? Nothing is there except to see outside of the human body. Freedom is not a culture. You can use wikipedia.org to find both culture and freedom definitions.

Miklos wrote:

I'd even suggest closing this topic down

You don't have right to close this topic. Who are you ? Are you the judge ? It is general chat and what I wrote is correct. Just did your freedom and naked wherever you are, in front of your parents, your grandpa and grandma and everyone. I just want to let you know it is not good to be naked and tobe gay or lesbian. If from the beginning of this world, everyone are gay and lesbian, there will not any human population increased or if even they are gay and lesbian but sometimes create children by doing free s** intercourse, I think there will no different nations in this world.

Arjan wrote:

I work saturdays, and always use them to read up on mibuso, and although i enjoy reading some general chatter, and i respect everyone's right to have their own beliefs, this is not the forum to have religious debates.
At least not the kind held here. I think moderators should close a thread immidiately when it hold statements like: I hate gay ppl.

I don't think so. The first time I wrote this message to point that it is not good to be naked in the public area. It is not polite and also dangerous to your body. The second I pointed about gay and lesbian and freedom related to it. It seems insane that someone is gay and lesbian, if it is viewed from the bible, alquran and other religion's view or atheism view. It it viewed from insane mind, it is no problem. The point is how they will have children ? meanwhile they have good fertilities ? AIDS/HIV diseases come from this kind of insane human attitude like gay, lesbian and freedom of sex, free to use heroin, drunk, stoned etc. Qeen's vocalist that has been passed away because of HIV/AIDS, he was a gay. And other who loves freedom.
I think it will be better for your to have culture and freedom that gives other nations like middle east and or Asia have good opinion and respect your countries and consider your countries are perfect and have good culture beside high technology products your have created.
If Moderator want to close this topic and even delete it, it is no problem to me. but I have given my opinion and suggestion. The Lord Jesus will come and will judge everyone based on their deeds, action and attitute, whether it was sin or good. Maranatha. Jehovah Elyon.


Rgds,

mark_christs

I read this message twice and see that there are some points I can obtain from this chat.
Most of us who disagree give their own best argument and inversely Johnson wrote his arguments. But what I see for disagree persons or members, they want to close this topic. It sounds strange. they said their culture is freedom but suddenly they don't respect the freedom of giving opinion that is written by Johnson.
I don't want this topic close because it is in the general chat and we must respect to each other's opinions. I obtain many benefits from this topic.

Savatage

I personally don't think that this thread should be closed.

Arjan_Somers

AIDS/HIV diseases come from this kind of insane human attitude like gay, lesbian and freedom of sex, free to use heroin, drunk, stoned etc. Qeen's vocalist that has been passed away because of HIV/AIDS, he was a gay. And other who loves freedom.
I think it will be better for your to have culture and freedom that gives other nations like middle east and or Asia have good opinion and respect your countries and consider your countries are perfect and have good culture beside high technology products your have created.
If Moderator want to close this topic and even delete it, it is no problem to me. but I have given my opinion and suggestion. The Lord Jesus will come and will judge everyone based on their deeds, action and attitute, whether it was sin or good. Maranatha. Jehovah Elyon.


Rgds,

HIV/AIDS occurance may be higher among gay/lesbian people, but it's surely not because of the fact that they are gay, but because of the life-style of some gay people.
Furthermore, you state that the freedom we enjoy here is the main reason for the HIV/AIDS problems in this world, but isn't it true that the biggest problem is in africa, where the massive increase isn't because of their freedom, but because of the restrictions and bad education given by the church?

Since you seem to be a religious man, how is your view on that?

And besides that, saying that the Freddy was gay and loved freedom, and he died of aids may be an example, but implying that this is the general case with people who love freedom or are gay is a bad case of generalisation, and makes it an ridicilous argument.[/quote]

Savatage

The whole premise of this post was wrong to begin with. You thought there is some town that everyone runs around naked in. I guarantee you that is truly not the case.

In my town I live with people of all color, races & creeds. What makes it all work is that we all respect each other's beliefs & cultures.

It's your rush to judgement and not your rush to understanding (in which there is a significant difference) that I and many others don't understand.

You so easily use the word Hate without even knowing the person or persons.

Nothing can grow or be gained from being so closed minded.

Do the gays/lesbians hate you for NOT being gay...no they don't.

I think the thought of closing this thread is NOT because they don't want to debate but because there is nothing more to be gained. Also it's a forum of sharing and helping not pointing fingers and hating.

your evil ... no we're not
your evil ... no we're not
your evil ... no we're not

ok we get it already.

Savatage

Now I see that the muslim world is up in arms again.

Apparently the Pope said something.

Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict’s remarks on Islam and jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage that many fear could burst into violent protests like those that followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

I will never understand why the respone to Words or Cartoons is Violence.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14846353/

DenSter

Savatage wrote:

It's your rush to judgement and not your rush to understanding (in which there is a significant difference) that I and many others don't understand.

=D> here here

Savatage wrote:

I will never understand why the respone to Words or Cartoons is Violence.

=D> =D> here here here

johnson_alonso

Dear Savatage, Denster, All,
Savatage wrote:

Do the gays/lesbians hate you for NOT being gay...no they don't.

It's really good the gays/lesbians hate me not. I actually hate not the individuals but their behaviors and sex orientation are.

Based on wikipedia:
The XX/XY sex-determination system is one of the most familiar sex-determination systems and is found in human beings and most other mammals. In the XY sex-determination system, females have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), while males have two distinct sex chromosomes (XY). Some species (including humans) have a gene SRY on the Y chromosome that determines maleness; others (such as the fruit fly) use the presence of two X chromosomes to determine femaleness.

So, what are their chromosomes ? what chromosomes will be they produce ? if I ask them about how to make children, you will say it certainly does not make children if they are gays/lesbians. It means that you don't understand. If a man marry with a woman, they maybe doesn't make children too. Do the woman and man not have a sexual interest between them and do that in the night, in the certain times to fulfill their biological needs ? Yes they have. They do that, it is fine and they can and reach it and use their own differents. What about gay and lesbians ? yes they can do. by what and how ? by o*** and a*** ? are they happy with that ? yes, they are, you will say that or you will say, the s** is not the primary important for their life, do you watch them seconds to seconds ? are you sure they won't do that ?
if we look at animals, do you ever know that the animals are gays/lesbians ? if not, I think human beings are more than animals and have good thinking. but if there are gays/lesbians among the human beings, it can be said in a little part that the animals have good thinking than human especially to determine their sex orientations and couples.

I think gays/lesbians comes from the old age, long time ago in the Sodom and Gomora based on bible or maybe other religion's book. it is disease comes from evil spells but not realised by the human understanding because since human beings fallen into sins, their minds have been a dwelling place of evil/devil/lucifer.

If the evil itself doesn't destroy yet or sent to the deepest ravine along with its angels and disciples, the gays/lesbians will keep on existing in this world forever. Eventhough there is AIDS/HIV or all the holy people pray together all the times, because the Lord God has given the human to choose Him or Evil/Lucifer.

I will not hate them but their behaviour or sex orientation. Sorry if I didn't explain it beforehand. I wonder among these forum members, they maybe exist. I respect you, your faith and your religion but I have given my opinion and suggestion based on my belief.

I live with many ethnics, race and religion here in Indonesia. I really respect for them. There are also gays/lesbians here that have different activity of life, they have know the risk being gays/lesbians and free of s** and they will be aware of the disease (HIV/AIDS). I just pray so that the will be healed from the disease (difficult to diffrentiate their couple chromosome).


Savatage wrote:

Quote:
Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict’s remarks on Islam and jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage that many fear could burst into violent protests like those that followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.
I will never understand why the respone to Words or Cartoons is Violence.

I don't have the right to gikve comments for your statement because I am Christian. I hate not Pope and I hate not Moslem.
It will be able returned to the individuals belief and good thinking and patience. what I mean here is that some people are really proud of their religion although their behaviour sometimes not follow their religion rule or acts, they hate people that have different belief and religion with their own. So, I conclude it is really difficult to determine people's mind and behavior if we talk about religion or faith. if the history of the religion seems bad today, but in the past, is not, the people will hate you if you talk about their past if it is not according to today's thinking.

Anyway, what do you think about people in the past time where Billy the kid lived, cowboys anywhere, massacre of original citizens (indian inca,etc), thomas watt and other technology inventor, religion development in US and Europe, indutrial revolution in england, napoleon bonaparte, tsar russia, I don't know about easter europe, it is close to me and not famous here, and other asia countries ? were there nudity in that time ?

it si really wonderful to know it .


Rgds,