Nav 2009 Webservice Licensing

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Comments

  • p.willemse6
    p.willemse6 Member Posts: 216
    Ravi,

    you are not correct. The fact that it is woroking is not relevant, because there is no technical check on the DCO. If your website users are internal, you need a DCO for each named user. If the users are external, you need an external connector...
  • bbrown
    bbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    Ravi_Thakkar wrote:
    Hello All,

    You all are correct according to your expertize. I appreciate it.
    But, in my scenario related to the Web Application,

    1) All the User names and passwords are handled in the NAV Table.
    2) At the login time, username and password verification is provided using the SQL Queries accessing that table.
    3) After all varifications and validations, user will be able to view or update respective data to SQL database (i.e. NAV Data)
    4) And as usval, web.config contains the SQL Login Name and Password information.
    5) It worked successfully. =D> =D>

    And ya, I mean in stmt. "No Licence needed" is that, as NAV Client or even Web Users of NAV DB required to have licence per each, while in my scenario I will not need any extra licence for each and every user.


    1. Each user needs to have a SQL CAL granting access the NAV SQL Server. If you are allowing anonymous access you must license SQL for unlimited users (processor licensing)

    2. Each user must have a valid NAV license because they are accessing the NAV database.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • DenSter
    DenSter Member Posts: 8,307
    Ravi_Thakkar wrote:
    in my scenario I will not need any extra licence for each and every user.
    Yes you do. Your argument "I don't get an error message so I don't need a license" is not a good one.
    Daniel Rimmelzwaan
    RIS Plus, LLC
  • jwilder
    jwilder Member Posts: 263
    I am being told the same thing. To connect a website with NAV 2009 via Extenral Connector you need 2 things:
    1) External Connector License
    2) SQL Processor License's for your Navision database

    Our NAV database has 4 processors which means $80,000 to $100,000 in license costs for us! This is absolutely insane.

    We are creating a new website and won't be able to use NAV web services because of this crazy cost. Please tell me someone has found out more about this.
    Jason Wilder
    jwilder@stonewallkitchen.com
  • generic
    generic Member Posts: 511
    jwilder wrote:
    I am being told the same thing. To connect a website with NAV 2009 via Extenral Connector you need 2 things:
    1) External Connector License
    2) SQL Processor License's for your Navision database

    Our NAV database has 4 processors which means $80,000 to $100,000 in license costs for us! This is absolutely insane.

    We are creating a new website and won't be able to use NAV web services because of this crazy cost. Please tell me someone has found out more about this.

    Whether you use or don't use web services, if you are accessing NAV data, you need the external connector. Assuming the users are non employees. If they are employees, then you need a DCO license for each employee.
    Welcome to MS Dynamics, where all your bases belongs to US. :!:
  • jwilder
    jwilder Member Posts: 263
    Yup. The external connector is very reasonably priced - no problem. It's the SQL Processor licenses that I am concerned about.
    Jason Wilder
    jwilder@stonewallkitchen.com
  • generic
    generic Member Posts: 511
    Are there actually 4 processors in separate sockets? or is it one multi core processor with 4 cores?

    SQL is priced by socket not by core. So you can buy one CPU that has 8 cores and save $$$
  • navvy
    navvy Member Posts: 79
    What about this scenario: I install a NAS which updates the article data in a webshop once a day. Which license do I have to buy for this automated export job? :-k
    navvy
    Freelance Developer
  • Ravi_Thakkar
    Ravi_Thakkar Member Posts: 392
    Hello Experts,

    I think this is a very interesting Post, going on.
    I so much agree with you all. And your points made some doubt in mind. :!: :-k
    And also clearing so many.

    Please, refer the attachment which contains the whole architecture of my project.
    FYI I have not used the web services concept or employee portal for this integration.

    Just done the customization through SQL queries to the SQL Table ( Of NAV database exists on SQL Server) as the all web applications.

    Please, do suggest if any. :|
    Ravi_Thakkar
    Ahmedabad, Gujarat, India
    E Mail : ravi.thakkar@hotmail.com
  • Ravi_Thakkar
    Ravi_Thakkar Member Posts: 392
    Ravi_Thakkar
    Ahmedabad, Gujarat, India
    E Mail : ravi.thakkar@hotmail.com
  • p.willemse6
    p.willemse6 Member Posts: 216
    navvy wrote:
    What about this scenario: I install a NAS which updates the article data in a webshop once a day. Which license do I have to buy for this automated export job? :-k

    Doesn't matter (according to the licensing terms). You use NAV data in your shop, and therfore need the external connector...
  • bbrown
    bbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    Ravi_Thakkar wrote:

    You still need to license your internet users for both SQL (processor licensing) and NAV (external connector). I have been thru this conversation with Microsoft from several angles (both NAV & SQL resources -technical and marketing) and they have all come back with the same answer.

    The External Connector licensing cost is minor. It's SQL where the real cost is, in particular, if you are running SQL Enterprise.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • jwilder
    jwilder Member Posts: 263
    What about NAS? Does NAS have to be licensed the same way on the SQL Side?
    Jason Wilder
    jwilder@stonewallkitchen.com
  • bbrown
    bbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    jwilder wrote:
    What about NAS? Does NAS have to be licensed the same way on the SQL Side?

    Below is the section from the SQL Licensing Overview that covers these scenarios. I think an argument could be made either way. as anyone raised this question with Microsoft? Of course, this would also extend into any other middle tier products such as Biztalk.

    One question I was asked, by Microsoft, was whether processes were batch-mode or real-time. The consensus seemed to be that if they were infrequent batch processes then only the users account for the process needed to be licensed. But for real-time (where the function was an extension of the end-user) they needed to be licensed.
    MULTIPLEXING: USE OF MIDDLEWARE, TRANSACTION SERVERS, AND MULTITIERED ARCHITECTURES
    Sometimes organizations develop network scenarios that use various forms of hardware and/or software that reduce the number of devices or users that directly access or use the software on a particular server, often called multiplexing or pooling hardware or software. Use of such multiplexing or pooling hardware and/or software does not reduce the number of CALs required to access or use SQL Server software. A CAL is required for each distinct device or user that is connected to the multiplexing or pooling software or hardware front end.

    This is true no matter how many tiers of hardware or software exist between the SQL Server and the client devices that ultimately use its data, services or functionality. An exception to this includes the manual transfer of data from employee to employee. For example, if an employee sends an Excel version of a report to another employee, the receiving employee does not require a CAL (as long as the report does not access a SQL Server in some way). An additional exception is communication exclusively between SQL servers
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • navvy
    navvy Member Posts: 79
    p.willemse6 wrote:
    What about this scenario: I install a NAS which updates the article data in a webshop once a day. Which license do I have to buy for this automated export job? :-k

    > Doesn't matter (according to the licensing terms). You use NAV data in your shop, and therfore need the external connector...

    ok, thank you for your answer. Last question: What if a user export the data with a dataport and import them into the webshop manual, does it still require an external connector license ?
    navvy
    Freelance Developer
  • Tronholm
    Tronholm Member Posts: 22
    "additional exception is communication exclusively between SQL servers"
    This opens an nice opportunity:
    Link NAV SQL database to SQL Server Express (which is free).
    Attach the web shop (or other application serving the remote users) to SQL Server Exprss.
    \:D/
  • generic
    generic Member Posts: 511
    navvy wrote:
    p.willemse6 wrote:
    What about this scenario: I install a NAS which updates the article data in a webshop once a day. Which license do I have to buy for this automated export job? :-k

    > Doesn't matter (according to the licensing terms). You use NAV data in your shop, and therfore need the external connector...

    ok, thank you for your answer. Last question: What if a user export the data with a dataport and import them into the webshop manual, does it still require an external connector license ?

    I think as long as it is a human being that clicks on a button, I don't think so.

    I was thinking that every company should hire an Ass or mule that walks in a circle and use that kinetic energy to press a button that could be used to export data.

    :whistle:
  • generic
    generic Member Posts: 511
    Tronholm wrote:
    "additional exception is communication exclusively between SQL servers"
    This opens an nice opportunity:
    Link NAV SQL database to SQL Server Express (which is free).
    Attach the web shop (or other application serving the remote users) to SQL Server Exprss.
    \:D/

    If you have to go through so many insane processes to get your data, maybe it's time to think and get another system solution.
  • bbrown
    bbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    generic wrote:
    Tronholm wrote:
    "additional exception is communication exclusively between SQL servers"
    This opens an nice opportunity:
    Link NAV SQL database to SQL Server Express (which is free).
    Attach the web shop (or other application serving the remote users) to SQL Server Exprss.
    \:D/

    If you have to go through so many insane processes to get your data, maybe it's time to think and get another system solution.

    This is meant to cover scenarios like replication. With a Linked Server, users would still be directly accessing NAV and therefore would need to be licensed for its SQL instance. Also don't forget about the resource limitations of SQL Express.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • matttrax
    matttrax Member Posts: 2,309
    I have to agree that most of this licensing stuff is crazy. I have to say, though, I'm surprised so many people have external applications accessing their NAV databases. In my opinion these apps should all talk to some sort of data warehouse that happens to have NAV data in it (and data from other applications like Dynamics CRM). Then you have one entry and exit point to NAV (and 1 licensed user in my book) and you're not exposing arguably your company's most important database to external users.

    Anyone disagree? I'm sure there are exceptions to my thought process :D
    Matt Traxinger - ArcherPoint
  • Tronholm
    Tronholm Member Posts: 22
    The question is not accessing the underlying SQL data, but using NAV Business Logic and accesing data thru NAV. That's supposed to be the point in 2009 Web Services.
    I don't see any major problem with the cost of DCO, but the cost for unnamed external users (like in a web shop or a hotel web booking engine) is so high that it will force typical NAV projects out of market.
  • p.willemse6
    p.willemse6 Member Posts: 216
    Tronholm is right. Keep in mind we are talking about webservices accessing the service tier for NAV. External users are not a major discussion, because the external connector is very reasonably priced. The internal user are more of a bottle neck if you ask me....
  • bbrown
    bbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    p.willemse6 wrote:
    Tronholm is right. Keep in mind we are talking about webservices accessing the service tier for NAV. External users are not a major discussion, because the external connector is very reasonably priced. The internal user are more of a bottle neck if you ask me....

    Yes, the external connector is reasonably priced. But the real cost of supporting external users falls with the SQL licensing, in particular for larger sites running SQL Enterprise. This is not unique to NAV.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • p.willemse6
    p.willemse6 Member Posts: 216
    indeed, and not new in any sense. The discussion started aroung the webservices pricing, where we together can conclude (again for external use) that it is reasonable, however SQL pricing is disturbing things a bit... other pricing team :D
  • bbrown
    bbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    p.willemse6 wrote:
    indeed, and not new in any sense. The discussion started aroung the webservices pricing, where we together can conclude (again for external use) that it is reasonable, however SQL pricing is disturbing things a bit... other pricing team :D

    True, but you can't focus on one and ignore the other. NAV does not live in a vacuum.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • navvy
    navvy Member Posts: 79
    Is it at all possible to license a web service (Page) object without buying a DCO / external connector.. ? :-k
    navvy
    Freelance Developer
  • ara3n
    ara3n Member Posts: 9,258
    navvy wrote:
    Is it at all possible to license a web service (Page) object without buying a DCO / external connector.. ? :-k

    There is SDCO (S = Sharepoint) but it costs about 25 Percent more than DCO.
    Ahmed Rashed Amini
    Independent Consultant/Developer


    blog: https://dynamicsuser.net/nav/b/ara3n
  • p.willemse6
    p.willemse6 Member Posts: 216
    navvy wrote:
    Is it at all possible to license a web service (Page) object without buying a DCO / external connector.. ? :-k

    nope. Well: technically yes, legally no....
  • generic
    generic Member Posts: 511
    p.willemse6 wrote:
    navvy wrote:
    Is it at all possible to license a web service (Page) object without buying a DCO / external connector.. ? :-k

    nope. Well: technically yes, legally no....


    and if the catch you, you'll be sued to bankruptcy.

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