Users versus Navision!

Arhontis

Hello everyone,

I have a question and I would like your opinion.

Lets suppose that you have a big client that uses Navision with more than 60 users that cover all applications except manufacturing.

After a year of on-line work, alot of problems occured that had to do with user faults on missing information and wrong information like wrong dimension vaues on items, generic missing info on customers, selling and receiving on wrong locations e.t.c.

Every user has a manual of all the information he needs to enter and use in the application.

We advice the customer to ask the users and setup a second training program to "fill in the gaps". Only 5% of the users asked for additional training.

Now the customer wants to tighten up Navision by making ALOT of information (fields) as prerequisite and put alot of checks on posting and on inserting data and of course show additional information on the same card like: the Service Item contracts to be show on the Service Item Card e.t.c.

I estimate the whole project to take about ten days, but it will make Navision very difficult to use...

In addition, we have built alot of information on dimensions and the use of the multi-dimension analysis and account schedules. We have even made customizations on the multi-dimensions with variable calcs on product costing, but the users ask for specific reports on paper!!!! #-o #-o

My first reaction was to bang by head against the wall!! ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

I recommended to whip (yes whip them up!!) the users to make them work more efficient.

I would appreciate everyones opinion on this issue, because I am planning to place a bomb inside the server!!!!

Thanks for any advice (I don't want to give away my sallary on therapy!!!!)

DenSter

All you can do is tell the customer about the results of what they want, and tell them how much it will cost them to have it developed,and what it is going to cost them in monthly bills for you to support the extra work. If they still want to go ahead, then they just want to do what they want to do. That's why we are in the service business, to service the requirements that our customers have.

Somtimes I don't agree with my customers either, but in the end it is THEIR system, and THEY determine what goes in it, not me. As long as we can keep the relationship good, they are happy with our work and they pay the bills, who cares?

rozema

Hello,

Although Navision is not very suitable for monkey users (Is is not intuative and is not user friendly in my opinion), the issue you have is in my perception an organizational one.

Besides training you have to make sure that users have self interest in filling in the required fields. Tools:
- Make manager of users responsible for entries under his/her watch.
- Make manager commit to this responsibility by creating financial incentives.
- create financiel incentives for users
- Make public who made the mistakes (how many etc). Show progress in time.
- Confront the users with the result of their handling and make them clear their own mess.

I would strongly advice not to tighten up Navision. It is a one way road (I think a dead-end street). Remember that every time your customer needs to upgrade, you will have to upgrade the customization...... This will increase (by many times) the initial investment for the customer!!!

Regards, Peter

radianis

Hi Arhontis,

What your customer need to tighten Navision after one year use is normal.

Do not be frustated...

There always pros and cons in every situation, you tighthen you got control.

You loosen you out of control.. 8)

Most of customer want their system in control, because they need 'accurate' information for their decision making or other use.

Accuracy mean three factors, quality, completeness, correctness and timeliness.

What your customer need to recover after one year running are completeness and correctness.
- Every data need to be input (complete)
- Every data need to be correct (correct)

So your customer only need to improve information quality by focusing on this two qualities, which is normal.

That's the reason why they want to buy a system like Navision.

If they can not get it better use Excell ...

Actually you can reduce this risk before going live by doing a comprehensive testing.

But there usually some judgement before going live not focus on this area (usually because of time limitation).

Or perhaps we already notice the risk at the first time but correct later since we do not know what is right and what is wrong after we put a lot of data into the system.

I agree with Denster that customer determine what they need, plus be sure to inform them about every risk with every option.

Decision is in our customer hand ...

kine

I think, the solution is somewhere between...

You need motivated people, with support of the system...

1) Motivated people - as rozema wrote. Without this, people will not read your Confirmations, errors, messages, they will ignore this... (Are you sure? Are you realy sure? Are you realy, realy sure? = 3x 'Y' key pressed)

2) You need add some support into application, but not too restrictive. Because there are exceptions in all rules... and you need to have flexible system...

Arhontis

Yes, I agree to all of the above. The customer is always right, if he pays, he can ask for almost anything. Except the remote launch of a space shuttle thru Navision...

Kine the remark about the "message ignoring" was thrilling, you are absolutely right, it happens everyday!!!

It is clear that the users are not motivated in any way and this is something that can be corrected in a period of time, but what can someone do when the managers of the customer are not using the benefits of the application? like Multi-dimension analysis, Account Schedules, statistics on Items/Customer and Vendors?

Thanks for your time all...

themave

From an end user point of view, what the customer wants is a system that enforces input requirements, This is not a unwarranted request.

for me it is very frustrations that Navision allows inconsistencies in the first place. In our 2.0 installation, (currently upgrading to 4.0) you can receive an item without a department code on a purchase order. But when you go to post an invoice to the purchase order, it won't let you because it says department code must be "06" in post receipt "bla bla bla" Now if it can require the department code when posting the invoice, why doesn't it also require it on the receipt.

Now many of you say, do more training with the users:

for the training, lets says we do that, and spend a $1000 to send John smith to class. He goes to class and gets training on a generic Navision, with Cronus company setup information, and it does not relate at all to what he does day to day.

Or then we could design custom training on our own test company, which adds to the cost. And John smith learns how to enter all the required items management needs and become the perfect data entry cleric. the very next week he leaves the company and we start all over again.

That is why we end users, request that you programmer build in some data input rules. So, required field get filled in.

Now another group suggest we provide more financial incentives.

for our company we have 45 employees, of which 41 are either mechanics or parts counter sales people. Mechanics, are experts in there field, but as a general rule, they only use the computer to get the job done. They are not in the position to run management reports, and have no incentive to enter extra information so we can run some more reports.
Now you want us to pay them extra to enter the information. We, operate in a competitive industry, should we put ourselves at a cost disadvantage because Navision can't enforce a view data input rules?

Warning message on the screen mean nothing to a parts counter guy, he is trying to make a sale. And, to tell him he needs to enter in 5 extra fields so that we (management) can judge his performance better is ridicules.

Now the customer wants to tighten up Navision by making ALOT of information (fields) as prerequisite and put alot of checks on posting and on inserting data and of course show additional information on the same card like: the Service Item contracts to be show on the Service Item Card e.t.c.

I estimate the whole project to take about ten days, but it will make Navision very difficult to use...

This is very reasonable, to want to see related information together in one place, makes entry more effeceint if your users to not have to access multiple screens to get basic information.

You also will say it will make Navison very difficult to use, but what you don't understand is it won't change what you are already asking the user to do. it will only enforce that they actually do it. which by your own admission is very difficult to do.

Just my opinion

kine

Main think is, if someone wants some report showing xy, system needs the information to be able to make this report. And it means, someone must enter them somewhere... this is base problem, because Company wants many reports with many information, super management charts etc... but nobody want's enter the needed data. Best for the Company is to have all needed outputs without any imputs... but this is not possible... :-)

Yes, if you want some outputs, you need someone who will fill all needed imputs. Who is this, this is on the company. If it is the specialist, or someone who collect the data from specialists and enter them into system - this is base decision. In this case, you can create special simple interface for the specialists and let the clark process the data with needed extra things... But - you need more employees. Or let it be as it is, let the specialis fill all data... In this case, he will need more time for his job. But he will be able to do better job if he has some profit from this additional work. For example he is able to do better decision based on some history etc.