How do these new cumulative updates work? (2013)

Miklos_Hollender

In older times a hotfix or update was application objects or basically a new client...

Now I have downloaded cumulative update 7 for DK and it looks like a full installation DVD.

There isn't really much documentation with it (neither on customersource and I use neither a partner company nor partnersource).

Can I assume on the platform executables, client, server side just install with the repair option?

On the database side, there are no separate FOB file of modified objects? Isn't there at least a list of modified objects to merge? How do people normally install these, do they do a full database merge every time?

Miklos_Hollender

Wait I found an Application folder. With OMG! 483 modified objects.

I should have checked this cumulative update before I started merging objects from 2009 to 2013 now I have to start again...

That answers the second one. In a pretty horrible way.

davmac1

on the plus side, now that you know, it makes upgrading to the last level much easier.

Kowa

That is the documentation:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/nav/archive/201 ... tions.aspx
Some Cumulative Updates come with a complete updated Installation DVD, but that is the exception, the last one was Update 6 for 2013 R2.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/nav/archive/201 ... eased.aspx

Miklos_Hollender

A blog post... OK thanks. It is weird that these days people have to hunt down information from diverse sources like blogs not from one place. Anyway better than nothing. I guess sooner or later our documentation will be an RSS feed combining everything...

I get it, Cumulative Update = new name for Update Rollups.

One interesting thing is that here they say if you have a new implementaton the best practice is to use the latest objects. But of course when you actually download the update in the request email it says they are not fully tested so only use them if you have one of the problems described in the knowledge base articles. Hmm.

One thing I miss is about installing platform updates. Use installer/repair or copy-paste DLLs, stop services before? For example it mentions somewhere that update 6 and thus 7 as well will need a database conversion but it does not say if it happens when we connect with the normal client or "development environment".

jglathe

Hi Miklos,

I feel your pain. No remedy yet.

Miklos Hollender wrote:

I guess sooner or later our documentation will be an RSS feed combining everything...

I'm in my forties now, and the realization that web documentation (however (sickly) organized) equals no documentation is getting through to me. The only real documentation is what you can print on paper and put it on a bookshelf. Oh, and it should be sufficient, structured, enough to learn the software from scratch - which it definitely isn't as of now. In the 90s, the documentation was... bad. In the 00s, it was... worse. Now, it is better, but the end of the documentation is either one real solar flare away, or just the usual "nobody needs that shit, it isn't accurate anyway" bit-rot over time.

Miklos Hollender wrote:

I get it, Cumulative Update = new name for Update Rollups.

Yes.

Miklos Hollender wrote:

One interesting thing is that here they say if you have a new implementaton the best practice is to use the latest objects. But of course when you actually download the update in the request email it says they are not fully tested so only use them if you have one of the problems described in the knowledge base articles. Hmm.

Fastly mutating product. You get the hotfixes mixed together with new features. A real PITA if you ask me, and can be avoided with some real development processes (the ones they've thrown away 10 years ago). Using TDD is a real DANGER to quality, IMO. It achieves the OPPOSITE of the intended outcome. I am convinced that you can write test cases that really make sense and ensure the stability of a complex product, but not with TDD. ALL partners have a problem with following up on the changes in the roll-ups and cumulative updates. As the disclaimers says, nothing is guaranteed. My experience with MS hotfixes for NAV are (sadly) that they are bad hacks in the best case, and outright shrapnels in the worst. This hasn't changed IMO, but the base product (RTM) is so buggy and not feature-complete that you eventually HAVE TO go with the rollups to get the current features. This is really bad. It leaves you with an even more unstable product full of bad hacks.
To keep track of the changes you need to do your own source code management. With additional problems. But there is no real way around it. Without it I would simply refuse to touch any of the updates that are thrown at me.

Miklos Hollender wrote:

One thing I miss is about installing platform updates. Use installer/repair or copy-paste DLLs, stop services before? For example it mentions somewhere that update 6 and thus 7 as well will need a database conversion but it does not say if it happens when we connect with the normal client or "development environment".

Since NAV2013 CU13, NAV2013R2 RU6 you get complete installation media. I would recommend to use them, do a clean install, remove the old components first. Yes, an update option is missing, should be there.
The conversion will take place when you open the database with the development environment, and it will brick the database for older versions even if you say "no". So, careful with this.

with best regards

Jens

Marije_Brummel

Microsoft is working on a solution to the merging pain and what I tested in beta looks very good. Keep your eyes and ears open for any updates, hopefully soon.

Miklos_Hollender

Thanks Mark. @jglathe: MS does TDD now? But the basic requirement for TDD is full functional transparency: a functions output must be determined entirely by its inputs, so that unit tests can be written for that function. Now in NAV theoretically the input of a function can be the whole database, because any function can look up a setting somewhere or any data really.

I could imagine TDD in ERP only if it was somehow separated. E.g. in a CU12 have a separate function for writing any table, have a separate function for checking everything, settings, data in other tables, and have them connected by functions that merely calculate and perform logic strictly from their inputs and nothing else. Those could be unit tested.

jglathe

Hi Miklos,

Miklos Hollender wrote:

MS does TDD now?

that was my impression, yes. I even had a question regarding ASSERTERROR in my MB7-702 exam today.

with best regards

Jens

Kowa

Miklos Hollender wrote:

MS does TDD now?

The concepts of unit tests, test automation etc. were topics of these 2012 TechDays sessions:
http://www.mibuso.com/dlinfo.asp?FileID=1492
http://www.mibuso.com/dlinfo.asp?FileID=1478

Miklos_Hollender

I don't want to start a separate thread about it, but it looks like the 2013 R2 DK demo database actually contains no demo data like no items? Stuff like posting groups or transaction types for Intrastat are there though. Looks like a project starter DB not really demo.

davmac1

Hi Mark,
Does the new upgrade include a dimension fix tool?
I hope the new upgrade tool takes into account common problems and provides tools to fix them.
It would also be fantastic not to jump through hoops merging ISV protected fields. If we could merge allowing compile errors, it would make our lives much easier.