Performance mystery / 64 bit server

JaSu

We are testing NAS with 64 bit Windows Server 2008 R2. NAS seems to be working correctly, but the performance is very disappointing. Our six years old server hardware (Xeon 3.20 GHz, E7520 chipset) with 32 bit Windows Server 2003 outperforms the new one (Xeon X7560 2.27).

We have been using the same SQL Server (dedicated hardware) and the same database in all our tests. We have tested different kind of database reading/writing operations, dataports with GUI, pdf-reports, reports with GUI etc. The result is every time the same: The old server does the job as quick or quicker then the new one.

We have tested many other 32-bit programs with the new server and in these tests it really shines.

We are using NASSQL version 5.0.27191 and FINSQL version 5.0.27191.

Any idea what is wrong or how to improve NAS performance? Or should we just forget 64-bit OS with NAS?

Marije_Brummel

The NAS is a 32 bit program with old architechture. I cannot use the benefits of the 64bit platform.

It should run as fast on an old windows XP box as on a brand new server or maybe faster because it doesn not have to convert from 64 to 32 bit.

Best way to improve performance is to add another NAS on another fysical machine, but you can only do that if they run other processes and don't start (b) locking each other.

JaSu

Mark Brummel wrote:

The NAS is a 32 bit program with old architechture. I cannot use the benefits of the 64bit platform.

It should run as fast on an old windows XP box as on a brand new server or maybe faster because it doesn not have to convert from 64 to 32 bit.

Do you really mean that the processor/memory speed has nothing to do with NAS performance? As an example one benchmark test gives our old cpu score 787 and the new one 8591, new box has much faster memory, buses, disks, everything.

I understand very well that the emulation layer (WoW64) slows down 32 bit programs a bit, but I find it strange that a NAV report can take twice as much time with a ten times faster cpu. We tested this also with a normal NAV client.

Has anyone similar NAV experiences with 64-bit OS?

Marije_Brummel

Performance is more than just CPU and RAM.

Have you measured the load that the NAS puts on the SQL Box? Maybe it's firing expensive queries, or just to many.

What does the NAS do? Interfacing? Background posting?

JaSu

Mark Brummel wrote:

Performance is more than just CPU and RAM.

That is obvious. I was just wondering, if you really do believe that they don't matter at all. Actually I wasn't talking about just cpu and ram. Every part of the new 64 bit box is superior, if we compare it to the old one.

Mark Brummel wrote:

Have you measured the load that the NAS puts on the SQL Box? Maybe it's firing expensive queries, or just to many.

Queries and the SQL box are totally irrelevant in this case. The SQL box and the database are identical in all tests, as I told in my first message. We are comparing two different client machines.

Mark Brummel wrote:

What does the NAS do? Interfacing? Background posting?

Many kind of things, but what this has to do with anything, if we are comparing client machines using the same code and the same SQL box? As I told before, we are not testing just NAS but also NAV Classic Client. I gave briefing about the tests we have done in my first message.

I have read Mibuso for six years without registering and you among the many many others have given me lots and lots of invaluable information. This is my first thread here and I really don't try to be hostile or a wise ass, but I'm looking for an advice for my performance problems with NAV client/NAS running in 64 bit system, not knowledge thet NAS is old technology or knowledge that performance is more than just CPU and RAM.

Has anyone similar NAV experiences with 64-bit OS? Any idea how to improve client performance?

Marije_Brummel

Performance is the result of a chain. The weakest link in the chain determines your performance.

If your SQL box has not changed and if that is the weakest link, the performance of a new NAS server will not increase.

kriki

Did you just backup and restore the DB to the new server?
Did you upgrade from an older NAV version to a newer NAV version?
Did you upgrade from SQL2000 to a newer SQL server version?
Did you configure correctly your server (disks and SQL and NAV DB)?
Did you do a rebuild index?
Are you sure your DB-files are not fragmented?
Is SQL+NAS the only thing that runs on the server?
Are the disks also used for other things?

These are some of the other questions. Mark seems to take for granted you already checked these and that they are ok, but you didn't write you did.

max_hl

Looks like bottleneck in CPU frequency. NAS is single threaded service and it can not use all CPU cores.

Instruction translation 32 - 64 is transparent process supported by CPU and it's can not dramatically downgrade performance.

I watched the performance drop when importing from Excel after similar hardware upgrade. I can not found other explanation.

JaSu

kriki wrote:

Did you just backup and restore the DB to the new server?
Did you upgrade from an older NAV version to a newer NAV version?
Did you upgrade from SQL2000 to a newer SQL server version?
Did you configure correctly your server (disks and SQL and NAV DB)?
Did you do a rebuild index?
Are you sure your DB-files are not fragmented?
Is SQL+NAS the only thing that runs on the server?
Are the disks also used for other things?

These are some of the other questions. Mark seems to take for granted you already checked these and that they are ok, but you didn't write you did.

We have one dedicated SQL server, which does nothing else. In our tests we have been using three different server boxes:

- SQL Server
- Brand new 64-bit NAS/NAV Client machine
- Six years old 32-bit NAS/NAV Client machine

The SQL box, the database and used objects are identical in all tests.

As an example we have been testing the same reports in NAV Classic Client (with GUI) first in the old server, then in the new one, then again in the old one, again in the new one... The result is every time the same: The old 32 bit server runs them faster than the 64 bit new one.

No upgrades, NASSQL version 5.0.27191, FINSQL version 5.0.27191.

JaSu

max_hl wrote:

Looks like bottleneck in CPU frequency. NAS is single threaded service and it can not use all CPU cores.

Instruction translation 32 - 64 is transparent process supported by CPU and it's can not dramatically downgrade performance.

I watched the performance drop when importing from Excel after similar hardware upgrade. I can not found other explanation.

Very interesting!

I took it granted, that every core of a new (faster architecture) processor will perform better than a six years old one, although CPU frequency is lower. I have to search more information about this.

kriki

Depends on a lot of factors.
Are you using 32bit or 64bit Excel?

BTW: a lot of servers have a power plan that is not fully using the CPU. It is possible that the server slows down the CPU-speed under certain circumstances. Check your powerplan to see if you have all at maximum performance (e.g. minimum and maximum power state should both be 100%).

lhejrovsky

This is very interesting thread. Did you find anything more?
To JaSu: I find confusing the way you identify systems in question, I am not sure if I got it right. Does Navision Server and Navision Client run on the same machine (number 1), different to SQL server machine (number 2) and old Navision Server and Navision Client machine (number3)? What if Navision client run on 64bit Workstation (number 4)? Or old 32bit workstation (number 5)?
Our problem is that we've changed many things, moving to 64 bit platform is one of them, performance is not good and we are yet to identify the cause.

max_hl

It is not x86 - x64 bit issue

JaSu

lhejrovsky wrote:

To JaSu: I find confusing the way you identify systems in question, I am not sure if I got it right. Does Navision Server and Navision Client run on the same machine (number 1), different to SQL server machine (number 2) and old Navision Server and Navision Client machine (number3)? What if Navision client run on 64bit Workstation (number 4)? Or old 32bit workstation (number 5)?

Server machine A:
- 64 Bit Windows Server 2003
- 64 Bit SQL Server 2005

Server machine B:
- 32 Bit Windows Server 2003
- Navision Application Server 5.0
- Navision Client 5.0

Server machine C:
- 64 Bit Windows Server 2008
- Navision Application Server 5.0
- Navision Client 5.0

Machines A and B are a part of our production environment. The hardware of the machine B is out of date and we need to replace it soon.

We tested a new machine C in our production environment. It was slower than B with NAS and NAV Client, but able to run much faster *everything* else we tested. We couldn't find the reason why. We used many kind of commercial programs, benchmark tests and we also wrote a couple of own 32-bit test programs with MS Visual Studio 6.

We haven't replaced the machine B yet, but when we do, the new server will have a 32-bit OS.

max_hl

JaSu wrote:

the new server will have a 32-bit OS.

Am I right, that you both tested as Win 32 (Win Srv 2003) so Win 64 (Win Srv 2008) on machine C, and Win32 was faster ?

ajayjain

We are in identical situation
Currently running 4.03 SQL 2005 on 32 bit with 32GB RAM with 250 users
trying to move on 64bit hardware with 100+GB ram
We simply backup and restored database on SQL 2005
and All test failed even with 20 users (locking,block,hanging etc)

schranzie

Hi All,

I see that the thread is a bit dusted, but still very interesting.

Are there any others that experienced the same kind of complicatinons (moving to a much better hardware and newer software and getting performance downgrade)?

Anybody spotted the real reason (probably not one but a group of depending reasons ) or have a clue / solution?

Cheers!