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Can i Access NAV 2009 from internet?

bangswitbangswit Member Posts: 265
edited 2010-10-07 in NAV Three Tier
as i know. nav 2009 is web based
can i access nav 2009 from the internet?
is it must used RTC?
thanks
«1

Comments

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    bbrownbbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    NAV 2009 is not web based.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
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    Timo_LässerTimo_Lässer Member Posts: 481
    bangswit wrote:
    can i access nav 2009 from the internet?
    As far as I know, it could be that this feature will be introduced with NAV2009 R2.
    Timo Lässer
    Microsoft Dynamics NAV Developer since 1997
    MSDynamics.de - German Microsoft Dynamics Community - member of [clip]
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    AlishaAlisha Member Posts: 217
    You can use Web Services for this...
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    bbrownbbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    Can we clarify what we mean? Do we mean accessing the NAV application via a web browser? Or are we talking about accessing NAV database (and maybe business logic) via a HTML based application?

    For the first part this has been doable for some time using the Advanced Terminal Server client (or other methods). The second one put you in the realm of Web Services.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • Options
    kinekine Member Posts: 12,562
    Timo Lässer wrote:
    bangswit wrote:
    can i access nav 2009 from the internet?
    As far as I know, it could be that this feature will be introduced with NAV2009 R2.

    But still, it doesn't mean that it is web based or that using RTC over internet will be usable for real usage. New feature in NAV 2009 R2 just mean that "it is possible" but still you need to have good bandwidth to not have performance problems...
    Kamil Sacek
    MVP - Dynamics NAV
    My BLOG
    NAVERTICA a.s.
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    bangswitbangswit Member Posts: 265
    so only the NAV 2009 R2 can access NAV (using RTC)?
    is it already published?
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    BeliasBelias Member Posts: 2,998
    bangswit wrote:
    so only the NAV 2009 R2 can access NAV (using RTC)?
    is it already published?
    no, it isn't...it will be released on Q4 2010. But i would not rely too much on the usability of a web client up to now. (for the reasons that kine explained)
    -Mirko-
    "Never memorize what you can easily find in a book".....Or Mibuso
    My Blog
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    bangswitbangswit Member Posts: 265
    All, thanks for the sharing....
    any other additional information would be good
    thanks
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    AndwianAndwian Member Posts: 627
    I ever opened the NAV remotely using the Internet. You must setup the NAV DB Server so that it could be accessed remotely (by Remote Desktop Connection), by the remote access using VPN or internet access.
    Regards,
    Andwian
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    atotovicatotovic Member Posts: 6
    If you have VPN, you do not need to use only Remote Desktop Connection. NAV 2009 is 3 tier application. You can use database server, application server and client (RTC) on different location. This mean that you can use RTC on own PC, while servers is remote. This is access from internet, although NAV 2009 is not classic internet application.
    Regards,
    Aleksandar
    http://totovic.com/
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    bbrownbbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    atotovic wrote:
    If you have VPN, you do not need to use only Remote Desktop Connection. NAV 2009 is 3 tier application. You can use database server, application server and client (RTC) on different location. This mean that you can use RTC on own PC, while servers is remote. This is access from internet, although NAV 2009 is not classic internet application.

    This is not supported.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • Options
    kinekine Member Posts: 12,562
    But I want to emphasize the word "can". It is same can as in "You can jump from this roof down". It is the "can" you do not want to become reality. It is good only for exceptional access to development or test database, not for Live usage in real company (if the company have more than one user).
    Kamil Sacek
    MVP - Dynamics NAV
    My BLOG
    NAVERTICA a.s.
  • Options
    kinekine Member Posts: 12,562
    bbrown wrote:
    atotovic wrote:
    If you have VPN, you do not need to use only Remote Desktop Connection. NAV 2009 is 3 tier application. You can use database server, application server and client (RTC) on different location. This mean that you can use RTC on own PC, while servers is remote. This is access from internet, although NAV 2009 is not classic internet application.

    This is not supported.
    It will be supported in NAV 2009 R2.. and this is what I am afraid of... the mis-usage of this "feature"...
    Kamil Sacek
    MVP - Dynamics NAV
    My BLOG
    NAVERTICA a.s.
  • Options
    rhpntrhpnt Member Posts: 688
    kine wrote:
    bbrown wrote:
    atotovic wrote:
    If you have VPN, you do not need to use only Remote Desktop Connection. NAV 2009 is 3 tier application. You can use database server, application server and client (RTC) on different location. This mean that you can use RTC on own PC, while servers is remote. This is access from internet, although NAV 2009 is not classic internet application.

    This is not supported.
    It will be supported in NAV 2009 R2.. and this is what I am afraid of... the mis-usage of this "feature"...

    I really don't know where's the "miss-usage" when using VPN as a connection to the NAV server or the DB directly (classic client)? I've been using this kind of connection ever since and as long there is a fairly good internet connection it's working like a charm. I would advise anyone to use the VPN connection instead of ANY terminal (rdp, cytrix,...) one and it's the kind of connectivity that MS itself emphasizes.
  • Options
    bbrownbbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    rhpnt wrote:
    and it's the kind of connectivity that MS itself emphasizes.


    I have never heard or seen anything from MS supporting or promoting this type of connections (pre R2).
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • Options
    kinekine Member Posts: 12,562
    problem is the part
    as long there is a fairly good internet connection it's working like a charm

    Because:
    1) internet is not reliable
    2) You do not have granted bandwidth in most cases
    3) If you run more users over the link, and somebody start download, you will kill the performance for others
    4) In most cases, the latency is too big

    and of course, all depends on what you are doing in NAV. If you are posting, or just running reports, or you are starting the Cost Adjustment batches etc...
    Kamil Sacek
    MVP - Dynamics NAV
    My BLOG
    NAVERTICA a.s.
  • Options
    rhpntrhpnt Member Posts: 688
    bbrown wrote:
    rhpnt wrote:
    and it's the kind of connectivity that MS itself emphasizes.


    I have never heard or seen anything from MS supporting or promoting this type of connections (pre R2).

    Well I've read about it a lot. Start in Security Hardening Guide - page 20+ included in every NAV installation - MS never mentions any terminal access. More to follow...
  • Options
    rhpntrhpnt Member Posts: 688
    kine wrote:
    problem is the part
    as long there is a fairly good internet connection it's working like a charm

    Because:
    1) internet is not reliable
    2) You do not have granted bandwidth in most cases
    3) If you run more users over the link, and somebody start download, you will kill the performance for others
    4) In most cases, the latency is too big

    and of course, all depends on what you are doing in NAV. If you are posting, or just running reports, or you are starting the Cost Adjustment batches etc...

    1-the same applies for terminal access
    2-true, but a symmetric 10/10Mb acces is almost standard for companies nowadays
    3-the link MUST be reserved for ERP access - no surfing/download allowed
    4-if 2 true then "no latency"
  • Options
    bbrownbbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    rhpnt wrote:
    bbrown wrote:
    rhpnt wrote:
    and it's the kind of connectivity that MS itself emphasizes.


    I have never heard or seen anything from MS supporting or promoting this type of connections (pre R2).

    Well I've read about it a lot. Start in Security Hardening Guide - page 20+ included in every NAV installation - MS never mentions any terminal access. More to follow...

    You are interpreting those statements too broadly and taking them out of the context (security) for which they were intended.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • Options
    bbrownbbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    rhpnt wrote:
    bbrown wrote:
    rhpnt wrote:
    and it's the kind of connectivity that MS itself emphasizes.


    I have never heard or seen anything from MS supporting or promoting this type of connections (pre R2).

    Well I've read about it a lot. Start in Security Hardening Guide - page 20+ included in every NAV installation - MS never mentions any terminal access. More to follow...


    See Tech Article 874535 on PartnerSource. While this article specifically references version 3.70 Microsoft's stand has not changed. At least not until R2 is released. Then we shall see.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • Options
    kinekine Member Posts: 12,562
    rhpnt wrote:
    2-true, but a symmetric 10/10Mb acces is almost standard for companies nowadays

    Yes, and minimum requirement for NAV C/Side client was 10Mbps, optimal 100Mbps (for NAV 2009 the network speed is not described in the system requirements). And this is per client. Thus your "standard" line is only for one user...

    My final word - NAV is for LAN, not for WAN. WAN access is only exceptional possibility.
    Kamil Sacek
    MVP - Dynamics NAV
    My BLOG
    NAVERTICA a.s.
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    AndwianAndwian Member Posts: 627
    Can I conclude that what I have being used now is incorrect?
    i.e. Many remote users access using Remote Desktop Connection the Terminal Server, and then open the NAV database that is in the separate server?
    Regards,
    Andwian
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    rhpntrhpnt Member Posts: 688
    bbrown wrote:
    See Tech Article 874535 on PartnerSource. While this article specifically references version 3.70 Microsoft's stand has not changed. At least not until R2 is released. Then we shall see.

    Well, if I took something out of context then I don't know what to say about your contribution.

    Because this doc is marked as confidential I can't quote it, but I would highly suggest that anybody who has access to it reads it and decides if it's still valid. I really can't believe that you are putting up this doc as an argument.

    Let me reconcile my statement; I'm not saying that NAV is ready for online 9h-17h work from remote branch offices via VPN and the Internet. For such scenarios there are other tools and products which take care of that.
    I'm saying that for every data connection VPN should always be choice over any kind of terminal one and that the terminal connection was NEVER intended for ERP online 9h-17h work. In terms of reliability and security there is NO other choice than VPN. I'm saying that rdp is the lowest most primitive form of remote connection possible and shall be avoided for use in realtime production ERP environments at any cost!
  • Options
    AndwianAndwian Member Posts: 627
    rhpnt wrote:
    I'm saying that rdp is the lowest most primitive form of remote connection possible and shall be avoided for use in realtime production ERP environments at any cost!
    Then what would you suggest?
    Regards,
    Andwian
  • Options
    rhpntrhpnt Member Posts: 688
    I don't know your scenario but make sure you have a WAN line with a symmetrical speed (10/10Mb min.) reserved exclusive for NAV (no surfing, streaming,...). Set up a solid VPN connection (MS or Cisco) and access the db using the client installed locally on the remote pc.

    Consult a local IT system integrator for further details and final implementation.
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    kinekine Member Posts: 12,562
    Best solution is to use VPN and RDP together (RDP could be used as Remote Application). Thus you have security and low bandwidth with high performance together.
    Kamil Sacek
    MVP - Dynamics NAV
    My BLOG
    NAVERTICA a.s.
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    AndwianAndwian Member Posts: 627
    Thank you Kine & rhnpt.
    Regards,
    Andwian
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    bbrownbbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    kine wrote:
    Best solution is to use VPN and RDP together (RDP could be used as Remote Application). Thus you have security and low bandwidth with high performance together.

    I would argue that the best solution (cost aside) is private line with RDP. In situations where private lines are not practical, either due to cost or availability then I'd say VPN would be the next choice.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
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    boywonderboywonder Member Posts: 179
    http://www.mikogo.com/
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    BeliasBelias Member Posts: 2,998
    Nav guys finally blogged about this:
    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/nav/archive/2010/09/27/hosting-possibilities-for-dynamics-nav-2009-r2.aspx
    -Mirko-
    "Never memorize what you can easily find in a book".....Or Mibuso
    My Blog
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