Can an item have itself as a component on a KIT BOM?

LibertyMountain

We have NAV 2009 and WMS. We do NOT have Manufacturing.

We sell ropes. cost=$100. We just got a bunch of carry bags to put the ropes in. cost=$10. Now we sell the ropes with the bag. I want to revalue the ropes at $110.

Method 1:
Negative adjust the rope bags. (DR Inv. Adjust. $10; CR Inv $10)
Revalue the ropes as +$10. (DR Inv. $10; CR Inv. Adjust $10)
Net G/L entry to item adjust = $0.00.

BUT ... on the item ledger you have a negative adjustment (not a consumption). Negative adjustments look bad for the warehouse as the assumption is that neg. adjustments are shrinkage.

Method 2:
Create a kit BOM that has rope and bag in the kit.
Assign the kit BOM to the rope.
Post the BOM.
No negative adjustment (instead a consumption and output entry).

I like Method 2, but I think it could be risky having an item based on itself. should I worry about this? Potentially we could add a labor component for the time it takes to transform all the ropes into ropes with bags.

Thanks for any input.

dimus

Method 2 is certainly a preferable solution as it creates proper postings in ILE and GL entry tables.

As far as Items, personally I think it would be better to use 2 items as finish goods: one is for the rope and the other one for the rope and a bag.

You can't use the item itself on the Kit BOM as it would create a circular reference.

LibertyMountain

we want to use the same item number. as that is known to our customers and we don't want to have to rename it.

I did use the item itself on a KIT BOM and it worked (Item Ledger and GL posted as I expected). But I am suspicious.

David_Singleton

This is wrong. You need to create two different part numbers since these are different items.

You will have problems doing it this way.

BTW you DO have manufacturing, that's what kitting is.

LibertyMountain

we can post Kit BOMs and consume a resource; that is all. we cannot make production orders, create routings or jobs, or consume materials or store WIP. We can assemble and disassemble kits. that's about it.

so my building a kit that consumes itself is probably something a future service pack should disallow?

David_Singleton

LibertyMountain wrote:

we can post Kit BOMs and consume a resource; that is all. we cannot make production orders, create routings or jobs, or consume materials or store WIP. We can assemble and disassemble kits. that's about it.

so my building a kit that consumes itself is probably something a future service pack should disallow?

Kitting IS Manufacturing, its the same tables and code units, so when you post a kit you are actually posting a production order. So just like a production order, DON'T use an item as a component of it self. Even business logic says this is silly.

vaidin

I totally disagree with you guys.
You can use on a BOM Item its own self + another Item.
This is very usefull when Item1 has high cost but Item2 has minor cost.
If the costs are equal or 70%-30% then you need a third one but this is only for business reasons not for Navision.
If you look what BOM is doing is Negative and Positive Adjustment.
On Positive it just does it with the Cost of the two components.

Just be carefull if you have 100 ropes but you want only 10 to make them package then you need a third item.
Also must be carefull on how average cost is moving.

e.g. Item1 = 100
Item2 = 10
You make a BOM on Item1 so Item1 now is 110.
You buy again Item2 for value of 15.
And you brake your previous BOM.
With what value it will remove the Item2 from the BOM? You just need to be carefull on those issues.

bstoyano

Hi,

I agree with the people here who say that it is not logical to use the same item No. for different articles (e.g. rope only and rope + bag). From your posting I have the feeling that you don't want to use a separate item for hte "rope+bag" because you do not want to change the number your clients see.

So my suggestion is that you use Customer cross reference codes.
I mean:
1. You create a new item XXXXX which is rope+bag
2. You produce this item XXXXX with a BOM
3. For item XXXXX you set a customer reference code, that is exactly the code of the rope-only article.

You only need to show in your print documents the cross reference code.

rdebath

This sounds like an 'Associated item'.
Lines that get added to an order or invoice automatically like extended texts when a particular item is entered normally.

It's not standard Navision but should be a simple addition for an NSC.

It can also be used for upselling.

David_Singleton

rdebath wrote:

...

It's not standard Navision but should be a simple addition for an NSC.
...

Yep very easy mod... takes about 20 minutes to develop and install.

Then about a year of finding all the new issues that pop up as the client uses a new feature that was not tested in the initial scenarios. Then another few months of fixing more bugs when the client upgrades to a new version, and find that adjust cost and planning have changed again.

There are many issues in Navision when you have an item as a component of it self in a BOM.

Off the top of my head, two fixes I remember when an NSC had done this, one was infinite loops in Adjust cost, another was costing totally screwed whent he customer ran planning and needed to expand all levels in the BOM. Oh and another where Calculate standard cost just went crazy.

It is VERY dependent on what version of Navision you are running, some versions it works, some it doesn't.

rdebath

I meant my suggestion of having lines added automatically to the SO/SI.

But a self referencing BOM does look like an infinite recursion waiting to happen and I agree would not be an easy change to make safely.

DenSter

I did a little experiment in a standard Cronus database and created a Kit BOM with the "Athens Desk" and "Paris Guest Chair". When I assigned the BOM to the Desk item:

---

Microsoft Dynamics NAV Classic

---

Max. Levels in BOM Structure on 50 is too high. Current Item No. 1896-S. End BOM Header No. DESKANDCHAIR. Level 25.

---

OK

---

It might be possible to prevent this error with a little development, but David is right, you have no idea what kind of trouble you are getting yourself into. It's not just the Item validation, but also building production orders, MRP, MPS, costing, there's a crapload of recursive logic in there, and I would personally do everything I can to convince my customer not to touch this logic.

Talk to the marketing people, I am sure it won't take more than a pizza lunch to come up with some advertising fluff that will seem like using a different part number is the best idea since sliced bread.

If you absolutely cannot live with a different part number, then the Item cross reference is the best idea I think, although I am not sure if it will let you use the same code as the Item number. Either way, it would be an easier mod to add a field to the Item table for "Item Number to Use on Sales Orders" or something like that.