Application Builder or Solution Developer

FHoekie

Can someone tell me wich license I must have for accessing the C/AL code in tables, forms and codeunits?
And what is the difference between Application Builder and Solution Developer?

aru

With Application Builder you can acces all code from tables, etc from nr 50000..

With Solution Developer you can acces all code from tables, etc from nr 1..

Please feel free tot contact me for detailed advise.

kine

No, there is only one difference: With solution developper you can change objects which changing protected tables... for example Codeunit 12 which change G/L entries... in application builder you can change all code in objects which you have in licence and do not work with protected tables...

Application Builder (7,200)
Technology You use this granule to change the business rules and special calculations that work behind the scenes.
These business rules and special calculations are defined in a language we call C/AL (C/SIDE Application Language). While Application Builder includes access to C/AL, it does not allow access to existing C/AL code that updates write-protected tables (postings for instance). Application Builder lets you create entirely new areas of functionality for your application, enabling you to tailor Navision Attain to fit your entire organization.
This tool also enables you to create 100 Codeunit objects (numbered from 50,000 to 50,099).
Requirements: Report & Dataport Designer, Form Designer and Table Designer
Solution Developer (7,300)
Technology You use this granule for the same purposes as the Application Builder granule, but it also gives you access to code that updates write-protected tables.
This granule gives you the access necessary to change or create any object type, and gives you access to the Merge Tool and Upgrade Tool.
This granule also enables you to use the menu options Translate/Export and Translate/Import in the Object Designer. These options are not available with the Application Builder granule.
Requirements: Application Builder

HalMdy

Additionnal :

Is there somewhere the complete list of write protected tables ?

Edward_Bloomfield

The list of protected tables differs from version to version and if you have an add-on, there may be additional ones.

The simplest solution is to create a report/form based on the Permission Range table (You cannot see this in the Object Designer & therefore it cannot be run directly). Filter on Object Type of TableData & Insert Permission = Indirect.

This should give you the list of Table Numbers you can only affect indirectly (i.e. Via posting).

tinoruijs

Does anyone has experience with working with only Application Builder (7,200) in the license and not Solution Developer (7,300)?
The price-difference between those two is huge, but the question is; Is Application Builder enough?

bbrown

Also Aplication Builder is required to use Solution Developer

kine

tinoruijs wrote:

Does anyone has experience with working with only Application Builder (7,200) in the license and not Solution Developer (7,300)?
The price-difference between those two is huge, but the question is; Is Application Builder enough?

It depends on what you are doing. If you need to add something what works with data before posting, AB is enough. If you need to work with data and process during and after posting routines, you need SD and good "Know How".

tinoruijs

kine wrote:

tinoruijs wrote:

Does anyone has experience with working with only Application Builder (7,200) in the license and not Solution Developer (7,300)?
The price-difference between those two is huge, but the question is; Is Application Builder enough?

It depends on what you are doing. If you need to add something what works with data before posting, AB is enough. If you need to work with data and process during and after posting routines, you need SD and good "Know How".

Do you know customers who work with only AB?

bbrown

tinoruijs wrote:

kine wrote:

tinoruijs wrote:

Does anyone has experience with working with only Application Builder (7,200) in the license and not Solution Developer (7,300)?
The price-difference between those two is huge, but the question is; Is Application Builder enough?

It depends on what you are doing. If you need to add something what works with data before posting, AB is enough. If you need to work with data and process during and after posting routines, you need SD and good "Know How".

Do you know customers who work with only AB?

We have a number of customer that do. They usually can't justify the expense for SD.

tinoruijs

bbrown wrote:

We have a number of customer that do. They usually can't justify the expense for SD.

Ok. I understand that. The costs are high.

Kamil just wrote in another post: But because the tables are "posted tables" you need Solution Developer granule to be able to add these fields. (http://www.mibuso.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=113814#113814)

And with that in mind, I think my customer probably needs Solution Developer.

Thanks for your input!

bbrown

tinoruijs wrote:

..And with that in mind, I think my customer probably needs Solution Developer.

Thanks for your input!

Or they pay you to make those changes.

When a customer purchases SD there need to be a clear understanding (between customer and solution center) as to who is responsible for the system stability. SD allows changes to areas that can drasticly impact the system.

tinoruijs

bbrown wrote:

tinoruijs wrote:

..And with that in mind, I think my customer probably needs Solution Developer.

Thanks for your input!

Or they pay you to make those changes.

When a customer purchases SD there need to be a clear understanding (between customer and solution center) as to who is responsible for the system stability. SD allows changes to areas that can drasticly impact the system.

Yep. I know. As customer with SD you are responsible for the system stability.
Hmm. Difficult.
Maybe they should buy AB and let me do the difficult stuff.

Either way; I now have some good arguments to choose AB or SD.
It's up to the customer what he decides.

Thanks!

stevea36

Does anyone have a ballpark price for bothe Application Builder and Solution Developer for version 4, SP 3, SQL version ?

DenSter

Wasn't that like almost $30K?

tinoruijs

DenSter wrote:

Wasn't that like almost $30K?

Yes. Somewhere between $30K and €30K...

bbrown

I believe it is closer to US$36K. Plus you might consider the developer's toolkit (a good tool to have) at another US$10K. Plus don't forget the annual maintenance.

David_Singleton

bbrown wrote:

Or they pay you to make those changes.

When a customer purchases SD there need to be a clear understanding (between customer and solution center) as to who is responsible for the system stability. SD allows changes to areas that can drasticly impact the system.

tinoruijs wrote:

Yep. I know. As customer with SD you are responsible for the system stability.
Hmm. Difficult.
Maybe they should buy AB and let me do the difficult stuff.

Either way; I now have some good arguments to choose AB or SD.
It's up to the customer what he decides.

Thanks!

I think that this really is not the issue at point here. If a customer has the table designer and report designer, they can just as easily screw up their system as they can with the AB or SD. In fact a client that has just gone out and purchased $40k of development tools is more likely to look after the investment, and train their people properly, than someone that was told by the sales people that their people can learn the report designer by them selves easily.

As to the question at point, over the years I have had many clients that had purchased both tools, and in all cases it was clear that the SD was not worth the money and hassle, better is to purchase just AB and get the Partner to do the SD stuff.

themave

stevea36 wrote:

Does anyone have a ballpark price for bothe Application Builder and Solution Developer for version 4, SP 3, SQL version ?

In the US, the last quote I was given (which hasn't changed in years) was $8000 Application builder and $26000 for the solution developer. this was less then a year ago, and I was also quoted that price in 1999 when we first went on Navision.

as an end user, never been able to justify it, always been more feasible to do what I can with basic tools, report designer, dataports, and limited form functionality, and have my solution center code the real stuff.

over the coarse of eight years we have been on Navision, it may have been cheaper to buy the application builder at the start, but the developer would still have done a better job of actually programming it.

hawwa

It's USD 17000 for the solution developer in my country. Seems cheaper compared to other countries.

David_Singleton

hawwa wrote:

It's USD 17000 for the solution developer in my country. Seems cheaper compared to other countries.

Prices are in C/Shells, and then there is a conversion rate from C/Shells to local currency. Some countries have lower prices because of the economics of that country.

Also keep in mind when buying developer tools that you must first buy all the NAV granules you need, plus Report designer table designer etc.

You can't just buy Solution developer on its own.