Navision Performance is inferior compared to GP

generic

I had posted awhile ago that GP can handle 1000 concurrently out of base GP product. And GP isn't 3 tiered.

If you set this requirement to a NAV reseller, their head will probably explode.

I don't see any info on how NAV will be positioned in future.
The programming language is stuck and major change would be costly and would require partners to learn and change their code.

Any tunning to the base product will be costly to partners and customers. Again backward compatibility issue.

I constantly see posts in here about performance.

Nav won't be an option for customers that want their software to grow with them. Just as MS been telling in their marking ads.

Instead of concentrating on share point client, they need to built a scalable scalable NAV ERP, because those 70 thousands customers care more about a scalable system that their business depends on than some web UI that 5 % of people out there would like to have.

Alex_Chow

I think p.willemse6 posted something on this forum where he has a customer that has over 1000 concurrent users in NAV. You may want to ask him about it.

generic

If you read this post, he states that have the legal department ready.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30399&hilit=user


And number of users is in 300. If it requires a field of performance tunning people to get this project going, then it definitely proves the point that Nav isn't a product that will scale.

What if the company increases to 50 users in future or to 100. They have to purchase new hardware and tunning. And tunning isn't a straight solution. There are trade offs.

Nav isn't the product for a company that grows. It's a product that you'll implement, complain about performance for 1 a year or 2 and then be fed up with it and move to another ERP system.

Alex_Chow

No, that's not the thread.

He has a Navision installation running with over 1000 concurrent users on one of the forum posts (which I cannot find for some reason).

Alex_Chow

Here we go:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17077

We have several sites with 300 and 400 NAV users, even one with 1200 users.

I knew my memory isn't failing yet.

kine

The programming language is stuck and major change would be costly and would require partners to learn and change their code.

Claim something is easy, make proof is hard. If you ask someone with knowledge, you will find that changing something in NAV is much easier than in other ERPs. The change of language is not costly, it was made in NAV 2009 in background, and "end-developers" even didn't notice that. Partners need to learn something new with each new version, but this is same for all ERPs, or not? If there is nothing to learn with new verision, the product is dead.

generic

Alex Chow wrote:

Here we go:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17077

We have several sites with 300 and 400 NAV users, even one with 1200 users.

I knew my memory isn't failing yet.

He mentions that as long as the users aren't doing anything concurrently.
Well if the users are doing things like this test
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=35983

Then those 1000 users would be choking to death their NAV system.

generic

kine wrote:

The programming language is stuck and major change would be costly and would require partners to learn and change their code.

Claim something is easy, make proof is hard. If you ask someone with knowledge, you will find that changing something in NAV is much easier than in other ERPs. The change of language is not costly, it was made in NAV 2009 in background, and "end-developers" even didn't notice that. Partners need to learn something new with each new version, but this is same for all ERPs, or not? If there is nothing to learn with new verision, the product is dead.

I agree, but the changes are too slow and small. To get the performance of being able to handle 1000, require big changes in the programming language. Yes partner need to learn, but it comes to radical change they still want their CA/L. Just look at topics new programming language for NAV.
50 percent of code out there is repeat until, and they need to be parallelized. SQL needs to be used in NAV.
Table structure need to change to remove locking of the ledgers.
But again big table changes will cost NSC and customers.
Base functionality needs to be added that makes it simple to split large tables into different file groups that can be moved to separate spindles. Programming feature needs to be added that by default doesn't look at archived records.

But sadly what is next version of NAV going to have? A sharepoint, And oh only 30-50 people will be able to use it, meanwhile 1000's of customers out there daily complain about performance, and pay a lot of money to tune their sql system.

Alex_Chow

You should contact p.willemse6 and ask him directly about his experience running a 1200 user site with Navision.

For your complaints, direct them to Microsoft. Everything you complain about so far is beyond the control of people contributing to this forum.

kine

1) NAV is for small-mid size companies... (depends if you are in US or Europe etc.), not for 1000 users...
2) You are mentioning what must be changed etc. - bud do not forget that if NAV will include all what you described, cost of running the system will be much higher than today, because you will need more and more specialized people around to get it running. It must be compromise of complexity and easy customization and maintenance.
3) Not everything can be parallelized in accounting...

David_Singleton

generic wrote:

I had posted awhile ago that GP can handle 1000 concurrently out of base GP product. And GP isn't 3 tiered.

If you set this requirement to a NAV reseller, their head will probably explode.

I don't see any info on how NAV will be positioned in future.
The programming language is stuck and major change would be costly and would require partners to learn and change their code.

Any tunning to the base product will be costly to partners and customers. Again backward compatibility issue.

I constantly see posts in here about performance.

Nav won't be an option for customers that want their software to grow with them. Just as MS been telling in their marking ads.

Instead of concentrating on share point client, they need to built a scalable scalable NAV ERP, because those 70 thousands customers care more about a scalable system that their business depends on than some web UI that 5 % of people out there would like to have.

So go away and sell GP and stop bothering us with your constant whining and complaining.

generic

Alex Chow wrote:

You should contact p.willemse6 and ask him directly about his experience running a 1200 user site with Navision.

For your complaints, direct them to Microsoft. Everything you complain about so far is beyond the control of people contributing to this forum.

From MS perspective, they don't care which Dynamics solution sell, as long as it sells.
MS will co evolve the products until they reach the final goal, what ever it is.
For MS it is more important to sell other products when you purchase one. Mainly they will get more licensing $.
So they are releasing SharePoint integrated with NAV as a way to bundle SharePoint.

Instead of concentrating on NAV weaknesses and put them on higher priority, they concentrate on Marketing priority and on features that few would like to have.

There are SharePoint integration available as addon. Or you can build a custom solution,
you can't do much when performance sucks and projects fail and customer has spent 100K in hardware and tunning only to sit there and way 10 hours for adjust cost to run.
Or constantly hear users complaining about locking issue.

generic

David Singleton wrote:

So go away and sell GP and stop bothering us with your constant whining and complaining.

Instead of providing a constructive post, you basically are attacking and telling/bulling me to leave the forum and change my profession to another product. I would lose years of experience with the product and basically start over.

All of this because, I would like the product to improve and compare the product to another ERP that NAV competed just a few years ago. Now GP can support 1K users with base product and NAV hasn't made any product improvements.
They have added a couple "FIND" function to the code.
Then you see posts like this.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=36439&p=177626#p177626

and maybe David you should tell that user to buy another ERP system next.

Alex_Chow

generic wrote:

Alex Chow wrote:

You should contact p.willemse6 and ask him directly about his experience running a 1200 user site with Navision.

For your complaints, direct them to Microsoft. Everything you complain about so far is beyond the control of people contributing to this forum.

From MS perspective, they don't care which Dynamics solution sell, as long as it sells.
MS will co evolve the products until they reach the final goal, what ever it is.
For MS it is more important to sell other products when you purchase one. Mainly they will get more licensing $.
So they are releasing SharePoint integrated with NAV as a way to bundle SharePoint.

What you're saying is nothing new. It's been shared by many people that are in this field for a long time. Microsoft is a software sales company, nothing more. It's how Wall Street evaluates them.

And your "case study" on GP running 1000 users, it's a marketing hype, I'm not sure why you take it at face value. I'm sure if Microsoft really wanted to, they can write a very good whitepaper based on the 1200 user Navision site that p.willemse6 mentioned.

Alex_Chow

generic wrote:

Instead of concentrating on NAV weaknesses and put them on higher priority, they concentrate on Marketing priority and on features that few would like to have.

Before making such a one-sided comment like this, I suggest you step into the sales role for a a year or two and let us all know if you would make the same comment.

All ERP products has their weaknesses, including NAV (although you would never get me to recognize it). The "weakness" you're stating simply does not apply to the majority of NAV implementations out there. How many 1000+ user implementations do you come across everyday (or even year) in NAV, SL, or GP?

And the adjust cost problem you're talking about, there are many ways to go about addressing it, like scheduling it on the job scheduler, running it per category, per item range, etc.

generic

The user is that link is filtering on one item!

It's not about 1000 users, it's about poor performance, most companies in the 50 to 120 users with greater than 40 gig db will tell you that performance sucks.


And the link isn't a marketing. They've specified the hardware, the transactions and what the users were doing. How many transaction were posted.


And you no longer will see the 1K implementation, because the MS guy will suggest them to use AX.
NAV is being put in a place to suffocate. It's being put in a place for companies that won't grow and are small and their business is unique that no vertical solution is built for it, so they need a cheap ERP to customize.
The whole push from MS to Solution Centers to go vertical doesn't make sense in NAV.
Nav is being pushed as solution for multi national companies, but the biggest weakness is it's not a unicode APP.
And being released and implemented in multiple counties has been also F*#%ed up.
They have postponed the release of NAV in multiple countries for over 2 years now.

generic

I saw this document for NAV PerformanceGuideforMicrosoftDynamicsNAV.


https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource ... 20Hardware


The number of user used is 50 users.

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