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Problem in running a table

lovelyklovelyk Member Posts: 83
Dear All,

I found a problem in taking a backup of my database as shown in the attachment, this I analyse deeply & come to know that this error is due to unable to run a particular table of LS retail i.e. POS Voided Line Transaction.

while I try to run the table from object designer I got the same message.

can any body have any suggestion regarding

Regards

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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    Did you try following the advice in the message and expand the database? :whistle:
    David Singleton
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    lovelyklovelyk Member Posts: 83
    ya I have tried everything as explain in the error but nothing had happen
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    lovelyklovelyk Member Posts: 83
    Restarting is not an issue dear.

    I copy the database & paste it to another system.

    these all small illlogical RND i did on my own, but nothing had happen.
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    So post in detail exactly what you have tried and in what sequence, also what version are you on.
    David Singleton
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    lovelyklovelyk Member Posts: 83
    Dear David,

    I have trided everything as per error and also some illlogical actions like copy the database into another system restart the services of server etc.

    as per my observation the problem is due to some record stuck into table of different structure, and we are not able to delete the data coz we r not able to open the table POS voided line traansaction.

    Regards
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    garakgarak Member Posts: 3,263
    I belive it's the native database.
    Whats the free space of this database and if you expand the database files, did you exand all files?

    If you want to test it before on a testsystem, copy the files to a other server and expand the Databasefiles so that ~ 20% Free Space. Can you now open the table?
    Do you make it right, it works too!
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    lovelyk wrote:
    Dear David,

    I have trided everything as per error and also some illlogical actions like copy the database into another system restart the services of server etc.

    as per my observation the problem is due to some record stuck into table of different structure, and we are not able to delete the data coz we r not able to open the table POS voided line traansaction.

    Regards
    So post in detail exactly what you have tried and in what sequence, also what version are you on.
    David Singleton
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    lovelyklovelyk Member Posts: 83
    Is there is some better & logical reply for my query

    garak -> I have tried the same and free space is more than 20 % for Native database, i thing file is only one to expand
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    Why can't you tell us the version you are running, and if its SQL or Native. Is this some secret information?

    Try to understand this:

    There are many many different issues that this can be, so we would have to either a/ take a random guess what your problem is (like Garak is doing) or b/ answer every possible solution which could take days. If you want help you MUST give the information.
    David Singleton
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    DenSterDenSter Member Posts: 8,304
    lovelyk wrote:
    Is there is some better & logical reply for my query
    To be able to solve a problem, first we must understand what the problem is. You're not giving us any details, yet you are expecting a better reply. To me that is NOT very logical :-k
    lovelyk wrote:
    I have trided everything as per error and also some illlogical actions like copy the database into another system restart the services of server etc.
    But you are not telling us WHAT you did. Clearly you did not do "everything" or your problem would have been solved already.

    It's up to you, if you want to get real help, you will post the details of your issue. If you don't post those details, then we know you don't really want to get real answers.
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    lovelyklovelyk Member Posts: 83
    Dear All,

    I am using Navision 4.0 sp3 with LS retail 5.0, this is my client's store database, I bring that database to my desktob & do all the analysis, while taking backup I encountered this problem & when I analyze it, i find that it come on running a particular table called POS voided line transaction, for this I come to a conclusion that by removing the data of that table I can able to overcome that problem, but I am not able to do so coz I am not able to run it by any means, not directly not by any other object to clean tha data of respective table.

    Regards
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    DeepDeep Member Posts: 569
    Hi,

    We have also encountered this error for more than 4-5 times, and unfortunately not found any remedy for it. This is surely because the database gets corrupted due to reasons like:

    1. Improper Shutdown/Power failure while the database is in use.
    2. Using external/windows backup utilities on the database while it is in use.
    3. Virus attack etc.

    The complexity is that we need to open the database to perform the desired tasks as in the error message,but the database could not be opened at all.
    We have already logged support requests with microsoft, but not got any solutions. But since the time we have checked on the above reasons, the databases are running perfect. Once again we found the same error thereafter, and have found that that was a case of UPS failure.
    Regards,

    Deep
    India
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    Deep wrote:
    1. Improper Shutdown/Power failure while the database is in use.

    A power failure will not corrupt a Navision native database. In fact this means that you have the server configured incorrectly. Most likely an issue with the network, or a faulty (or wrongly configured) hard disk controller.

    Maybe you are using RAID 5?
    David Singleton
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    bbrownbbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    Deep wrote:
    1. Improper Shutdown/Power failure while the database is in use.

    A power failure will not corrupt a Navision native database. In fact this means that you have the server configured incorrectly. Most likely an issue with the network, or a faulty (or wrongly configured) hard disk controller.

    Maybe you are using RAID 5?

    What about the situation where changes are sitting in "commit cache" that have not been written to the disk? Isn't this why NAV recommends having a UPS if you are using "commit cache"?
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
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    matttraxmatttrax Member Posts: 2,309
    Not sure if I missed if it was native or SQL.

    But if it's SQL, you can just drop the table. Obviously that has its own problems, but I (sadly) know from experience that you can drop a table, even if it has data in it.
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    bbrown wrote:
    What about the situation where changes are sitting in "commit cache" that have not been written to the disk? Isn't this why NAV recommends having a UPS if you are using "commit cache"?

    No this will NOT corrupt the database, that is what has made commitcache so special. It write the data to the disks in the correct sequence, so that if you lose power, you will still have a valid database according to Navision's version principle.

    The reason for recommending a UPS, is that you could theoretically have up to 666 Meg of commit cache, which is a damn lot of data that you probably don't want to loose. Also there is an issue that there is no way to know how much data you lost, so it can be a job to hunt through documents and find out what needs to be reentered.

    BUT a total power failure on properly configured hardware will not corrupt the database.
    David Singleton
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    PS think of commit cache in Navision as like the log file in SQL. If you lost your log file suddenly, then all the transactions on the database would be valid, you would of course lose what ever data was still on the log and not commited, but the data you did have would be valid.
    David Singleton
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    matttrax wrote:
    Not sure if I missed if it was native or SQL.


    I guess you are like the rest of us that are having trouble with our ESP/Mind Reading abilities today.

    Unfortunately lovelyk seems to think that he/she can keep all the details of the issue a secret, and that we can still solve the issue.

    I have a pretty good idea of what happened, but I am not in any mood to play guessing games, so I will leave this to someone else.
    David Singleton
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    lovelyklovelyk Member Posts: 83
    I just want to add one thing to above problem

    which is that If I did any sort of Rnd regarding problem mension the size of my database grows to maximum permisable limit.

    can anybody have a suggession to it.
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    lovelyk wrote:
    I just want to add one thing to above problem

    which is that If I did any sort of Rnd regarding problem mension the size of my database grows to maximum permisable limit.

    can anybody have a suggession to it.

    So why didn't you say this. ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

    This is CRITICAL information to know, and if you had stated this in the beginning we could have helped you before you destroyed the database further.

    So the next important thing is we need to know EXACTLY which version and Navision build you are running.
    David Singleton
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    By the way, from the information so far, it looks like you have a faulty network card.
    David Singleton
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    lovelyklovelyk Member Posts: 83
    Dear David,

    As I already mension that I am using Nav 4.0 sp3 Native client, other then this could you please eleborate how navision database is depend on network architecture.

    Regards
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    kapamaroukapamarou Member Posts: 1,152
    Just a guess: If you create a new form based on this table and show only one of the fields on the form do you still get the same error?
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    SDalietosSDalietos Member Posts: 15
    Dear lovelyk,

    As you may already know the POS Voided Line Transaction table keeps voided transaction that is data you don't want to keep.

    You may want to do the following.

    Backup the Database via Microsoft Business Dynamics Nav Backup Procedure, and then restore again via Microsoft Business Dynamics Nav Restore Procedure to a Microsoft Business Dynamics Nav client which uses SQL Server.

    Then log on in SQL and truncate the POS Voided Line Transaction table.

    If you experience problems while the back up procedure reply again.

    Ls Expert
    Spiridon C. Dalietos
    Ls Retail - Microsoft Dynamics Nav
    www.Dalietos.com
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    David_SingletonDavid_Singleton Member Posts: 5,479
    bbrown wrote:
    What about the situation where changes are sitting in "commit cache" that have not been written to the disk? Isn't this why NAV recommends having a UPS if you are using "commit cache"?

    No this will NOT corrupt the database, that is what has made commitcache so special. It write the data to the disks in the correct sequence, so that if you lose power, you will still have a valid database according to Navision's version principle.

    The reason for recommending a UPS, is that you could theoretically have up to 666 Meg of commit cache, which is a damn lot of data that you probably don't want to loose. Also there is an issue that there is no way to know how much data you lost, so it can be a job to hunt through documents and find out what needs to be reentered.

    BUT a total power failure on properly configured hardware will not corrupt the database.


    FYI:
    The commit cache ensures that the database file is consistent even if a power failure occurs during a write operation to the disk.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd338661.aspx
    David Singleton
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    lovelyklovelyk Member Posts: 83
    Dear All,

    I Still cant get the concrete solution for the same.

    David :- what all information you want as I already shared the version & the type of the database in the discussion FYI this problem is still comming in NAv 2009 with LS & the database type is Native.

    Kindly suggest
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