NAS strategy vs. webservices

trinsan

A curious question here. Whats MS' plans for NAS in the future?

As NAV 2009 introduces webservices, and MS are fusing NAV and SQL closer together too, what are the perspectives of NAS?

I'm looking ahead, because I'm working on a web portal, and thinking if I should go web-services now, to save me from overhead in the future, or use NAS because it's likely to exist till 2020.

Cheers, Trin

kine

If you will go through WebService way, you cannot make mistake. And do not forget that you can use NAS to create webservice server too... it means WebService is working on NAV 2.0+ through NAS or on NAV 2009 natively...

Michaellee

Been looking into Webservice and the amopunt of DCO licences you have to purchase just makes this middle tier so expensive...

mike

trinsan

Michaellee wrote:

Been looking into Webservice and the amopunt of DCO licences you have to purchase just makes this middle tier so expensive...
mike

I'm not sure I understand you cirrectly.

The scenario is to develop a series of webparts for sharepoint, that through a webservice hands data from or to the sharepoint webpart to a sql-server table, from which a user can retrieve data through a form in NAV.

Would this affect the license model?

Michaellee

trinsan wrote:

Michaellee wrote:

Been looking into Webservice and the amopunt of DCO licences you have to purchase just makes this middle tier so expensive...
mike

I'm not sure I understand you cirrectly.

The scenario is to develop a series of webparts for sharepoint, that through a webservice hands data from or to the sharepoint webpart to a sql-server table, from which a user can retrieve data through a form in NAV.

Would this affect the license model?

Quoting - "Microsoft has always had a licensing requirement for third party applications (e.g., handheld scanners) that access NAV data. These were known as web users and were licensed on a named user (CAL) basis. The requirement for partners to ensure this was licensed was never enforced by Microsoft until the introduction of the DCO licensing structure which came into effect late last year. There are two types of DCO license – WSS and MOSS. Both licenses provide legal access by third party applications to access Dynamics NAV data. The main difference being that the MOSS license also includes a MOSS 2007 Enterprise CAL, with the MOSS 2007 Enterprise Server included in the price.



DCO-WSS is priced at £90 per CAL plus enhancement

DCO-MOSS is priced at £185 per CAL plus enhancement



There are a couple of scenarios that are excluded from DCO Licensing. These are:

· Running a SQL Reporting Services report that does not update data – this is covered under your SQL Server CAL

· Accessing data from a SQL Analysis Services database, ensuring this does not update data back into the NAV database – this is covered under your SQL Server CAL

· Accessing data through a Dynamics Mobile application – this is covered under the Dynamics Mobile license

· Dumping data directly from the NAV client into Excel/Word etc.



Any other scenario in which a third party application (scanners, external applications, Excel, Word etc) accesses live NAV data, either by reading data or updating data requires a DCO license.



The External Connector only covers access for users who are not employees of the organisation (e.g., to ensure licensing compliance for e-commerce solutions or providing access to customers and suppliers to live data feeds)"


Our questions and answers on DCO licensing:

1. Are DCO licenses covered under a volume agreement?

a. DCO Licenses are not covered under a Volume Agreement as Volume Agreements cover Microsoft Classic licensing only

2. Do users licensed under the NAV Concurrent User License require a DCO license to access NAV data outside of the client (for example, NAV client users accessing an external .NET application consuming a web service from Dynamics NAV)

a. Yes, they will need a DCO license

3. If a customer purchases DCO-MOSS licenses, can the MOSS element of the license be allocated to different users

a. No, the DCO named users must be the same as the named MOSS users

4. If a customer purchases a DCO-WSS license, can they upgrade to the DCO-MOSS license at a later stage

a. Yes, they need to pay the difference between the DCO-WSS and DCO-MOSS license cost

5. If potentially all 150 warehouse users could be accessing Dynamics NAV data through a handheld device, however only a small amount will be working with it at any one time, how many DCO licenses will be required?

a. 150 DCO licenses will be required.

Michaellee

So from the answers I was given, this would say to me that you will need to purchase x amount of DCO-WSS/DCO-MOSS licences per NAMED user and this does not limit this to webservices, something as simple as a refreshable spreadsheet would need a licence. :roll: :roll:

(Just getting ready to duck all the flames that I might receive on licencing)

Mike

kine

Yes, there is no difference in licensing if using NAS or WebServices. If you implement webservices through NAS, you still needs correct number of DCO licenses or external connector. It means there is no choice if you want to use some portal to access the DB.

mrQQ

can you please tell me where did you find this quote?

Michaellee wrote:

trinsan wrote:

Michaellee wrote:

Been looking into Webservice and the amopunt of DCO licences you have to purchase just makes this middle tier so expensive...
mike

I'm not sure I understand you cirrectly.

The scenario is to develop a series of webparts for sharepoint, that through a webservice hands data from or to the sharepoint webpart to a sql-server table, from which a user can retrieve data through a form in NAV.

Would this affect the license model?

Quoting - "Microsoft has always had a licensing requirement for third party applications (e.g., handheld scanners) that access NAV data. These were known as web users and were licensed on a named user (CAL) basis. The requirement for partners to ensure this was licensed was never enforced by Microsoft until the introduction of the DCO licensing structure which came into effect late last year. There are two types of DCO license – WSS and MOSS. Both licenses provide legal access by third party applications to access Dynamics NAV data. The main difference being that the MOSS license also includes a MOSS 2007 Enterprise CAL, with the MOSS 2007 Enterprise Server included in the price.



DCO-WSS is priced at £90 per CAL plus enhancement

DCO-MOSS is priced at £185 per CAL plus enhancement



There are a couple of scenarios that are excluded from DCO Licensing. These are:

· Running a SQL Reporting Services report that does not update data – this is covered under your SQL Server CAL

· Accessing data from a SQL Analysis Services database, ensuring this does not update data back into the NAV database – this is covered under your SQL Server CAL

· Accessing data through a Dynamics Mobile application – this is covered under the Dynamics Mobile license

· Dumping data directly from the NAV client into Excel/Word etc.



Any other scenario in which a third party application (scanners, external applications, Excel, Word etc) accesses live NAV data, either by reading data or updating data requires a DCO license.



The External Connector only covers access for users who are not employees of the organisation (e.g., to ensure licensing compliance for e-commerce solutions or providing access to customers and suppliers to live data feeds)"


Our questions and answers on DCO licensing:

1. Are DCO licenses covered under a volume agreement?

a. DCO Licenses are not covered under a Volume Agreement as Volume Agreements cover Microsoft Classic licensing only

2. Do users licensed under the NAV Concurrent User License require a DCO license to access NAV data outside of the client (for example, NAV client users accessing an external .NET application consuming a web service from Dynamics NAV)

a. Yes, they will need a DCO license

3. If a customer purchases DCO-MOSS licenses, can the MOSS element of the license be allocated to different users

a. No, the DCO named users must be the same as the named MOSS users

4. If a customer purchases a DCO-WSS license, can they upgrade to the DCO-MOSS license at a later stage

a. Yes, they need to pay the difference between the DCO-WSS and DCO-MOSS license cost

5. If potentially all 150 warehouse users could be accessing Dynamics NAV data through a handheld device, however only a small amount will be working with it at any one time, how many DCO licenses will be required?

a. 150 DCO licenses will be required.

kine

Do not forget that the licensing has changed and now there is something like "Limited device cal"....

mrQQ

Yes, I know, but our local microsoft reps state different about use of reporting services and analysis services..

kine

I think that the problem is, that there are two Cals about which you need to think: SQL CAL and NAV CAL (NAV license). You need SQL Cal for each named user accessing the data (through reporting services, analysis services). The NAV data are licenses under another "agreement", where to access the data of NAV you need the correct license. But the correct licensing is out of my limits and is needed to refer both sides, NAV licensing, and SQL licensing.

mrQQ

i was hoping that the quote was from some official document that I can refer local reps to..

mdPartnerNL

kine wrote:

If you will go through WebService way, you cannot make mistake. And do not forget that you can use NAS to create webservice server too... it means WebService is working on NAV 2.0+ through NAS or on NAV 2009 natively...

I know this is an old topic but may i ask techinical question about this..

My understanding was that real NAV webservices are only available in the SQL version of NAV. For example i can create a page, start RTC en activate that as a webservice, and do not forget to start the webservices service.

In the native/classic version of NAV above is not possible. You can use NAS to create a webservice but you need to create it in VS2008?

kine

Yes, you need to use NAS and some automation to create the "interface".

mdPartnerNL

kine wrote:

Yes, you need to use NAS and some automation to create the "interface".

yes, but then it's not multithreaded so users need to wait for another user. Correct?

kriki

mdPartnerNL wrote:

kine wrote:

Yes, you need to use NAS and some automation to create the "interface".

yes, but then it's not multithreaded so users need to wait for another user. Correct?

Correct.
We have converted some web-interfaces using NAS to using webservices and the customers is very happy with the increased performance and stability.

kine

Yes, of course...

Edited: Too late... :-)

ivarsk

Can someone please confirm that with the increased direction towards WebServices, Navision Application Server will still be included in upcoming NAV 7?

kine

If you will read statements of directiony, you will know, that NAV 7 will not support forms and other "classic" things. Because NAS is only Classic client without gui, you can make the conclusion. Of course, there will be appropriate tools to solve different things.

ivarsk

Thank you for the direction of thought, but I guess I cannot take this as a definitive answer. If NAS is really the Classic Client without UI, which I believe it is, it will surely be gone together with the Classic Client.

I should probably rephrase then - will there be a replacement for NAS working in the same manner as NAS works now (I don't know - RTC without UI or something ), or WebServices remain the single choice for building automated data exchange interfaces?

kine

As I told you, there will be solution, when NAS will be removed. I cannot tell you more... 8) When we saw the solution, nobody had situation, which will not be solved with this...

Terax

kriki wrote:

mdPartnerNL wrote:

kine wrote:

Yes, you need to use NAS and some automation to create the "interface".

yes, but then it's not multithreaded so users need to wait for another user. Correct?

Correct.
We have converted some web-interfaces using NAS to using webservices and the customers is very happy with the increased performance and stability.

Did you converted to the webservices built into Navision 2009 SP2? Currently we must decide, if we implement the webservice over NAS or use the built in Navision 2009 SP2 solution?

What do you think and recommend? We're on Navision 2009 SP2.

kriki

Yes, it is necessary if you need to use C/AL code for processing the data.

Create a codeunit with functions in it and publish the codeunit as a webservice. And you can call it.