Upgrade 3.6 to NAV 2009

pvar

Hi,

Could anyone please explain the steps to upgrade Navision 3.6(sql 2000 version) to NAV 2009(sql 2005/2008)? Also the software & hardware requirements on the box where we do the upgrade? I know we have to do a two step upgrade from 3.6 to 4.0 to 2009. Our current version is highly customized, just an FYI.


Thanks

ara3n

The steps for customer is.

1. Make a backup and send it to your Solution Center.
2. Get back a 2009 backup.
3. restore the backup with 2009 client on sql 2005/2008
4. Test, Test, Test. Go through every process in your old version and compare it in new version.
5.Once ready the Solution Center will redo 1-3 in production environment. You'll need Install the new client on all the new machines

pvar

Actually we are trying to do this in house, so the solution center is us. I know there are tools that we could use to help us on this. So basically I am looking for expert opininons by some one who actually done any conversions like this or know about it. Thanks for the reply though.

ara3n

Ok... here is more detailed process.

The Solution Center will do the following. (you)

1. Restore the backup in a 2009 client.
2. Identify all the objects modified.
3. Analyze the mods and see if they are needed, or similar functionality already exists.
4. from 3.6 to 2009 several areas have been redesigned a lot. Jobs, Costing.

5. Create a new empty database and Load 2009 objects. Load load all 50K range objects. Since they don't need merging.
6. Existing objects that are modified. Get a 3.6 std unmodified database and start text comparing and idientify the changes and make the same changes to db created in 2009 in step 5.
7. Use Transformation toolkit to move the forms to Pages in db step 5.
8. Go through all the reports and create the Layout for RTC. in db step 5
9. So once the objects have been upgraded, it's data upgrade time.
10. Get a 3.7 cronus database. Open it with 2009 classic client.
11. From the db in step 1. Run the virtual Field table and filter on 50K range fields and copy into the 3.7 db in step 10.
12. Get Upgrade toolkit 3.7 load it into db in step 1. Follow through the process. When asked to load the 3.7 objects, load the objects from db in step 11.
13. Load the 2009 upgrade toolkit objects. Follow through the process. When asked to load the 2009 objects. load the objects from db in step 5.
14. Open 2009 Cronus and export the data in 20 mill range for profile etc.
15.Do unit tests and make a backup and send it to the client.

pvar

Thanks ara3n for the detailed reply. Now let me ask you some specific questions.

1. It looks like you are suggesting an upgrade path 3.6 - 3.7 - 2009. How does this better than 3.6 - 4.0 - 2009?
2. Can you do the 2 step upgrade in one process and have the jump from 3.6 to 2009? How much of an issue will this be in terms of training users? Or do you recommend upgrading to nav 5.0 now and later to 2009 because of the pages etc?
3. When you say about backup/restore, are you talking about navision backup/restore or sql backup/restore?
4. In terms of the tools required you would need developer tool kit to compare/merge objects and upgrade toolkit for data upgrade?
5. I guess you would need to have navision 3.6, navision 3.7/4.0 and nav 2009 installed in the box where you do the upgrade? You would also need sql 2000 and sql 2005/2008 installed as well?
6. What should be the memory/processor/disk requirements?

ara3n

]Thanks ara3n for the detailed reply. Now let me ask you some specific questions.

1. It looks like you are suggesting an upgrade path 3.6 - 3.7 - 2009. How does this better than 3.6 - 4.0 - 2009?

2. there was little change from 3.6 to 3.7. Main difference was moving bin code from ILE to warehouse entry. If you are now using bin code, you can comment part of the upgrade process and it will greatly improve the speed. I have upgraded from 3.6 to 3.7 , and from 3.6 to 4.0 and I remember running into less issues with upgrade toolkit. Either way will work though.

2. Can you do the 2 step upgrade in one process and have the jump from 3.6 to 2009? How much of an issue will this be in terms of training users? Or do you recommend upgrading to nav 5.0 now and later to 2009 because of the pages etc?

2. I would not upgrade to 5.0 at all. You can move to 2009 but use classic client, which is basically 5.0 sp2. Less training etc. I would definitely recommend this approach. That way you can postpone the step 7 and 8. Step 7 and 8 will take a lot of time. More Specifically step 8. It will require also less training. Once you are live with 2009, then do step 7 and 8 and train a group of users. I would start with accounting and move them to RTC, then another group.

3. When you say about backup/restore, are you talking about navision backup/restore or sql backup/restore?

3. You can use sql backup restore, but only for upgrade process. When users are going to test, you'll need to do NAV backup and restore.
There are issues with restoring 2000 sql backup to 2005. It related to permission and you will see very odd things. For example code will work fine for SA but for regular users the code will not. Also something to add to list to test the new security roles in test db and export them out for live conversion.

4. In terms of the tools required you would need developer tool kit to compare/merge objects and upgrade toolkit for data upgrade?

5. I never use the dev toolkit for upgrade. You will need the upgrade toolkit for data upgrade. The codeunits it runs are required. The objects could be renumbered to 50 range.

5. I guess you would need to have navision 3.6, navision 3.7/4.0 and nav 2009 installed in the box where you do the upgrade? You would also need sql 2000 and sql 2005/2008 installed as well?

You don' t need to install any of it. Just copy the folders to one computer. I upgrade all on a local native db and I don't use sql. It's faster with native.

6. What should be the memory/processor/disk requirements?

You can do all of on regular 2 gig ram laptop. The time that will the most is step 12 and 13. You will need the best hardware possible. Hard drive will be your bottleneck. So having RAID 10 on split the native database over multiple drive would make a big difference.
I was upgrading on a db and it ran for about 4 days. We ran it on production on a database split accross 3 RAID10 drives and it finished in less than 10 hours.

pvar

Thanks again for the detailed reply, Considering the size of our database being 250gb and there are 30 different companies in one database and there are some 600+ objects being modified, both existing and new in 50k range, will there be any change in the process that you laid out?

A few more questions

1. Based on what I understood we have to perform only one object upgrade from 3.6 to 2009 and a two step process to upgrade the data?
2. What do you recommend on the data upgrade, one company at time or everything together?
3. Anyway we need the 2009 classic client and 3.7/4.0 client as well for the data upgrade?
4. Where do we get the transformation toolkit? Does the tool automatically convert all the forms to pages?
5. Is there another tool to convert the report to the new layout?

ara3n

pvar wrote:

Thanks again for the detailed reply, Considering the size of our database being 250gb and there are 30 different companies in one database and there are some 600+ objects being modified, both existing and new in 50k range, will there be any change in the process that you laid out?

A few more questions

1. Based on what I understood we have to perform only one object upgrade from 3.6 to 2009 and a two step process to upgrade the data?

Yes

2. What do you recommend on the data upgrade, one company at time or everything together?

For testing you can upgrade all the companies so that all the testing is done for all companies.
For doing it in live, I would do one or 2 companies at a time. Depending on how much the process for data upgrade take place and how much downtime you have. And if there are any intercompany modification for syncing items etc is done. You'll basically have two database as the companies are upgraded.

3. Anyway we need the 2009 classic client and 3.7/4.0 client as well for the data upgrade?

I don't see why you would need them.

4. Where do we get the transformation toolkit? Does the tool automatically convert all the forms to pages?

The tools is on installation dvd for 2009. It converts forms to pages to about 90 percent. You still have to do 10 percent manual adjustment.
It all depends on your forms. There is a detail info on help on how to use the transformation toolkit, and in 2009 sp1 they will have more info and trouble shooting info for the transformation. For example in pages there is no such thing as label controls. So if you have any labels without a parent text box, you'll have to deal with them manually.

5. Is there another tool to convert the report to the new layout?

2009 classic client has a suggest layout. Ms mentioned that it would take 8-16 hours per report to upgrade. If you get good at it, it can be lowered. That's why moving to classic only first makes sense since you can do this after upgrade.

pvar

The tools is on installation dvd for 2009. It converts forms to pages to about 90 percent. You still have to do 10 percent manual adjustment.
It all depends on your forms. There is a detail info on help on how to use the transformation toolkit, and in 2009 sp1 they will have more info and trouble shooting info for the transformation. For example in pages there is no such thing as label controls. So if you have any labels without a parent text box, you'll have to deal with them manually.

So all you need to start the upgrade process is nav 2009 dvd that contains all the tools and the application? Do you know where we can get one of this?
Do we also need 3.7/4.0 upgrade toolkit for the first stage of data conversion?

ara3n

2009 can be downloaded from

https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource ... AV2009.htm


Upgrade toolkit is on the same website for 2009. You need to download that.


I can't find the upgrade toolkit for 3.7. You can download the 3.6 db from here

https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource ... page=false


You can use 4. sp3 upgrade toolkit. It's available Here.

https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource ... page=false

pvar

Unfortunately I do not have access to the partner source pages. I will try to get it from somewhere. Anyway thank you so much.

pvar

While looking more into the steps I have a couple more questions

I am planning to use the developer tool kit merge tool to identify the changes and merge the objects between the versions since we have a lot of customizations.

In step 5 you have mentioned to create a new empty database and load all 50k range objects. Since we have objects in that range in our current version do we really need to load the 50k objects or just import the merged version from the developer tool kit?

Since we are planning 3.6 - 4.0 - 2009 upgrade path, will there be any changes in steps 10, 11 & 12 other than do with version 4.0 database & upgrade tool kit?

Thanks

ara3n

pvar wrote:

While looking more into the steps I have a couple more questions

I am planning to use the developer tool kit merge tool to identify the changes and merge the objects between the versions since we have a lot of customizations.

In step 5 you have mentioned to create a new empty database and load all 50k range objects. Since we have objects in that range in our current version do we really need to load the 50k objects or just import the merged version from the developer tool kit?

There is nothing to be merged for 50K objects, but yes you could load them from developer toolkit.

Since we are planning 3.6 - 4.0 - 2009 upgrade path, will there be any changes in steps 10, 11 & 12 other than do with version 4.0 database & upgrade tool kit?

Nope

Thanks

welcome.

pvar

Sorry to bug you again, but could you explain little more on step 11?

Can you run the virtual field table from the object designer in 2009(you don't see that in 3.6)? Are you saying to export all the 50k+ tables from 2009 and import into 3.7 database? Thanks.

ara3n

pvar wrote:

Sorry to bug you again, but could you explain little more on step 11?

Can you run the virtual field table from the object designer in 2009(you don't see that in 3.6)? Are you saying to export all the 50k+ tables from 2009 and import into 3.7 database? Thanks.

In step 11. In object designer create a new tabular form. In table write Field. This is the virtual table. Add all the fields and run the form.

Filter on No. Filed > 50000 and <99999. Filter on TableNo <50000 OR > 999999.

Once you have the list, you copy and paste it into 3.7 database.

The purpose of step 11 is to copy all the custom fields without merging objects. The data migration step just needs the fields.

pvar

Got it. But what if you have tables & fields outside this range? We have customization done in every place that you can think of. Thanks

ara3n

Do you have a vertical solution? Customers can only add fields in that range.

By customization, do you mean you changed the field types? or field length?

For field length and field types, we do not recommend this change for customers. Mainly because of upgrades. But yes, you'll need to move those across.



If you are referring to code changes, they are not executed during data migration, and you are doing the merge for 2009 objects. So you do not need them for interim step into 4.0 sp3.

pvar

Yes we have followed a process to add new fields only in the 50000 range mostly. But we have changed/added keys, option values and code. So I guess we are ok.

ara3n

Yeah, you'll be fine. If you get error in step 12 when loading these 4.0 sp3 objects you can include those fields and move on.

bramson

Excellent posts, thank you so much for the information. Just one last question, I have Navision 3.60.A installed on my customers system. The partner that installed it is no longer available and this is where I come in. I am fully certified in Great Plains 10 but NAV 2009 looks very similar. I need to upgrade to NAV 2009 from 3.60.A. I have the NAV 2009 DVD and I also have Navision 4.0 SP2 installation CD. Can I do an upgrade to the 4.0 SP2 and then to NAV 2009? I read this post but I'm just checking once more. Also, the 3.60.A has a lot of customizations. Thanks

bramson

One other question, the current Navision 3.60.A database is native. The NAV 2009 installation will be on a SQL Server 2005 database. In what steps do you suggest taking the native datbase and converting it over to SQL? What are the steps in this proccess? Again, I'm just a little confussed of what was posted previously. Thank you

ara3n

bramson wrote:

Excellent posts, thank you so much for the information. Just one last question, I have Navision 3.60.A installed on my customers system. The partner that installed it is no longer available and this is where I come in. I am fully certified in Great Plains 10 but NAV 2009 looks very similar. I need to upgrade to NAV 2009 from 3.60.A. I have the NAV 2009 DVD and I also have Navision 4.0 SP2 installation CD. Can I do an upgrade to the 4.0 SP2 and then to NAV 2009? I read this post but I'm just checking once more. Also, the 3.60.A has a lot of customizations. Thanks

Yes you can use 4.0 sp2 as intermediate step for data migration as well.

ara3n

bramson wrote:

One other question, the current Navision 3.60.A database is native. The NAV 2009 installation will be on a SQL Server 2005 database. In what steps do you suggest taking the native datbase and converting it over to SQL? What are the steps in this proccess? Again, I'm just a little confussed of what was posted previously. Thank you

There is a Migrate fob that you can run. You can run that process at the begging or at the end of your upgrade process.
You import the fob. You run the CU, it will generate an text file. You then import the txt file compile it and then run the new CU. This will take very very long time. For large db I would just run it at the begging on a separate copy of the db and let it finish At the end it will identify the dates that are earlier than 1753 and then you have to fix those records.
I would then export that data that needs to be fixed and write a custom dataport to fix in your upgrade database as well as in Production.

pvar

I am testing step 11 in this process, ie, copying and pasting all the custom fields into version 4.0 for the first phase of the data conversion by running the virtual table 'Field' and I am running into some issues.

1. I am not able to copy & paste option type fields
2. Calcformula of flowfields are not getting copied over

Any idea, solution?

Thanks

ara3n

1. You will need to filter them out and add them manually by designing the table and copy and paste the field. This way all the property of that field are copied. If there are any code onvalidate, you need to delete them.
2. you don't need flow field tables for intermediate step. You can filter them

pvar

Gosh, I should have known about the flowfields, they don't really store any data!!

I do not see an easy way to copy & paste the option type fields when you design the table. I will manually create those fields, no big deal. Thanks.

DenSter

It's easy to copy an option field, it works the same as copying other type fields. Select the field in the table designer, hit Ctrl+C. Open the target database, open the target table in the table designer, hit Ctrl+V. Done. You might have to work further on making sure all properties and code still compiles, but copying the field itself is that simple.

pvar

Some how I couldn't copy fields from the citrix session to the local database on my laptop. It works fine between 2 databases locally. Thanks.

ara3n

pvar wrote:

Some how I couldn't copy fields from the citrix session to the local database on my laptop. It works fine between 2 databases locally. Thanks.

Yes, copy and paste between citrix and local client doesn't work.

When you paste objects into clipboard, you can specify different object types.
For example String, Picture, etc.

Navision puts into clipboard, String and MS Dynamics NAV object.
MS Dynamics NAV objects are encrypted, and not easy to decipher. That's why copy and paste in nav is a little slow, because it has to encrypt every record and unencrypt when you paste.

Other applications such as excel can read the string part.

When you paste from nav to another nav, Navision reads the MS Dynamics NAV Object and imports that from clipboard.

Citrix only brings across the String back to local computer, and that's why Navision can not paste through Citrix.

David_Singleton

ara3n wrote:

The steps for customer is.

1. Make a backup and send it to your Solution Center.
2. Get back a 2009 backup.
3. restore the backup with 2009 client on sql 2005/2008
4. Test, Test, Test. Go through every process in your old version and compare it in new version.
5.Once ready the Solution Center will redo 1-3 in production environment. You'll need Install the new client on all the new machines

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

rsaritzky

ara3n wrote:

Ok... here is more detailed process.


1. Restore the backup in a 2009 client.
...
11. From the db in step 1. Run the virtual Field table and filter on 50K range fields and copy into the 3.7 db in step 10.

Are you saying here to open the db in step 1 database, run the virtual field table, filter on 50K and copy/paste into the 3.7 database? I tried to dataport-export and dataport-import and that doesn't work if a field is type "Option" - it generates an error saying you must specify the option values for the field - those values are not in the virtual Field table.