Validation of NAV 5.0 Certifications

manoj

Hi,

How long NAV 5.0 certification will last? Are there any plans that future certifications coming up with year tag rather than version?


Thanks
Manoj

Tomas

By default, certifications are valid until product is supported.

According to Microsoft Support Lifecycle, Microsoft Dynamics NAV 5.0 will be supported:

General Availability Date 01/01/2007
Mainstream Support 10/01/2012
Retired Extended Support 10/01/2017

So, I would assume that certifications for Microsoft Dynamics 5 will be valid for 8 more years.

AdamRoue

I do not believe that is the case.

The certifications are not related the support.

If we look at the history they removed the 3 certifications as being valid when 5 was introduced because of the differences in the system, however the 2 manufacturing also lost validity at this time, it had held it for a long time, but the three versions were much earlier to lose the validity.

Essentially Microsoft evaluate each area and say whether the previous versions exams are an equivalent and therefore valid, or not and make you sit it again to retain your certification.

DenSter

Nonsense . When you certify, you certify for life. Your certification will remain in tact, it's just that the product upon which it is based is no longer in use at some point. The validity of your 4.0 manufacturing certification doesn't all of a sudden become invalid just because there is a 5.0 version. If you want to be able to call yourself certified for 5.0 though, you will have to get certified in that version. You don't certify for "manufacturing", you certify for "Manufacturing in NAV 4.0".

There are two reasons you would get certified:
1 - because you want to 'prove' proficiency in some specific functional or technical area. In this case, your certification would hold its value for as long as there are implementations on that version, which could be years beyond their support cycles.
2 - because your company needs you to be certified to retain their partner status. In this case, someone would have to get new certifications, because only Microsoft will say which certifications they count toward the partner status.

I've had to do both DEV certs more than once because my employer demanded that I do it, because the ones I had didn't count toward partner status anymore. That doesn't mean that all of a sudden that certification is no longer valid, it just means that it doesn't count toward partner status anymore. I'll be certified to develop in 2.5, 3.6, 3.7 and 4.0 for as long as I live. They won't be in use way before that, so at some point it's essentially worthless.

David_Singleton

I was in a room with with 35 people last year. reviewing resumes and certifications, I THE LEAST certified Navision person in that room. That might sound good except to know that one of the people in the room had only seen Navision for the first time in her life three months prior to that seminar.

So please don't get me started on certifications.

Did I mention my blog

DenSter

David Singleton wrote:

So please don't get me started on certifications.

We share the same opinion on that one I think

There is the question of HOW will you get certified, which is an entirely different ballgame. Especially when the reason people get certified is for the partnerstatus, then it is probably fair to say that well over half of the certifications around the world are completely worthless, because people just memorize the questions for that.

I wouldn't mind discussing that one, and why it is that people feel they can get away with that. It's one of the reasons why I don't even want to certify anymore, because it is wellknown that those have become a worthless measure of one's abilities.

AdamRoue

Hi Daniel

Me not explaining myself clearly again

I took the question, because of the posting, to mean how Microsoft viewed the validity of the certification, not how long you would consider yourself "certified" after passing an exam - I do not believe my view is different to yours or Davdis on this

I my opinion my 2.5 manufacturing certification is still valid for 5 due to the limited changes and teh generic nature of the exam questions - Microsoft however would like me to resit this to validate my accreditation

Alex_Chow

David Singleton wrote:

I was in a room with with 35 people last year. reviewing resumes and certifications, I THE LEAST certified Navision person in that room. That might sound good except to know that one of the people in the room had only seen Navision for the first time in her life three months prior to that seminar.

So please don't get me started on certifications.

Did I mention my blog

Certifications are as important as your college degrees. Whether one deems that it's important or not, it's up to the employer or the individual.

Certifications looks good when you do marketing and prove to the prospect you know what your doing in a short amount of time without going through a lot of song and dance.

I know when I approach a financial planner, I want to see his/her certification beforehand before we discuss anything else.

Alex_Chow

Oh, you also need certification papers to be able to become a NAV reseller.

DenSter

Alex Chow wrote:

Certifications are as important as your college degrees. Whether one deems that it's important or not, it's up to the employer or the individual.

I agree that certifications are as important as college degrees, but it completely depends on HOW you get certified.

Your college degree is supposed to prove that you went to college for 4 years and worked your butt off to study and learn the material, not that you memorized all the exam questions. The way that most colleges do their examinations is that there is a mix of different types of tests, to eliminate people cheating their way through.

The way that MSFT do their testing (at least for NAV) is by having the same multiple choice exam over the past 10 years. When I took my first DEV exam, I had to develop the solution and turn in the objects, now it's just multiple choice questions. All people have to do nowadays is buy a brandump, study the answers for half an hour and they can pass the test. This has led to an insane inflation of certification, and it is very difficult to know whether someone is really good when they have 10 certs, because you have to make an effort to determine HOW they took the test, or have them take YOUR test to make sure they know their stuff.

Someone's proficiency in NAV simply cannot be measured by how many certs they have anymore, because frankly it doesn't prove anything, these certs have lost all their intrinsic value and credibility. This is not just a problem with the current influx of NAV people from developing countries, this is happening everywhere. It is happening everywhere because of free market. Someone gets away with it, brags about how easy it is, and the next guy thinks 'why should I bust my butt to study when I can get it just by memorizing the questions', and before you know it, everyone is doing it.

MSFT needs to address the type of testing, because this is a big problem. And don't even get me started about the conflict of interest at MSFT. They demand you get certified, but the only place to get the study material is MSFT, and it is ridiculously expensive too.

DenSter

AdamRoue wrote:

Me not explaining myself clearly again

Hi Steve,

I should use more smileys, because I intended the "nonsense" bit to be very lighthearted, I'll put it in after I post this

You are right, we do agree on this, Microsoft does use it that way. I just don't agree with it. For as long as there are 3.6 implementations, any 3.6 certification should be valid, no matter what MSFT says. You studied the material (if you did it right), and the software still works the way you learned it.

And I also agree that some exams have not essentially changed for a LONG time, and it is really quite silly to make people retake those unchanged exams, especially if you're current on the subject matter (i.e. have used it or applied your knowledge about it in recent history).

Alex_Chow

I absolutely agree 100%

However, the public at large will not bother to take the time to understand the certification process. They only want a piece of paper or something official stamped by Microsoft saying you are certified.

On the flip side, maybe the reason why the certification process is not as intensive is because Microsoft wants to encourage a lot of people to obtain certification so prospective buyers can sleep in comfort that their NAV solution will be supported by thousands and thousands of certified professionals.

matttrax

I agree with just about everything said here. Obviously it depends on the college / program, but I paid, and am still paying, a TON of money for my college education. Basically a piece of paper from a good school.

It's hard to set yourself apart on your resume as an entry level guy. Resumes read the same: Developed this, Programmed that, Implemented this. You have to have something that makes you stand out, even if it is a worthless Certification that cost you $125. That's one of the reasons I do it anyway. That and I actually want to know what I'm programming and not reinventing functionality that already exists.

So if that $125 piece of paper is what set you apart over the other guy then it was worth the investment in time and money (assuming you do it the right way). In the end, though, any interviewer, or manager if you're lucky enough to get hired, will figure out what you can and can't do.

*End Rambling*