Why navision does not have debit memo?

NaviDev

As stated in the subject, why is it debit memo being remove from Navision v4.0+?

DenSter

You mean Purchase Credit Memo? That's still in NAV, has been and will be.

davmac1

Debit memos have never been in Navision.
Other systems have them.
Without customization, to do a debit memo, you have to enter it as an invoice.

DenSter

So what we're really talking about here is what we call things.

To me a credit memo is the reverse of a sales invoice, and a debit memo is the reverse of a purchase invoice. In NAV this is called "Purchase Credit Memo", and it is standard functionality, it's been there since I started working with NAV, and I don't think it will ever not be part of the core app.

NaviDev

Thanks a lot for the light you have given me...

idiot

DenSter wrote:

So what we're really talking about here is what we call things.

To me a credit memo is the reverse of a sales invoice, and a debit memo is the reverse of a purchase invoice. In NAV this is called "Purchase Credit Memo", and it is standard functionality, it's been there since I started working with NAV, and I don't think it will ever not be part of the core app.

I think you may be wrong here.
A Debit Memo will always be with the same "side" as the Invoice & has the same effect as Invoice.
A Sales Debit Memo will increase the amount of sales & Purchase Debit Memo will increase the amount of purchases.
A Purchase Credit Memo & Purchase Debit Memo is totally opposite of each other.

ssingla

Navision provide 2 options i.e. Purchase Invoice and Purchase Journal in the purchase domain. I have seen system where they provide purchase credit note to record the purchase transactions with vendor which does not involve items (For service transaction by selecting G/L account). Navision does not need the same as it gives the option of account type in purchase line.
Same is true with Sales Invoice and Sales Journal.

AdamRoue

idiot wrote:

DenSter wrote:

So what we're really talking about here is what we call things.

To me a credit memo is the reverse of a sales invoice, and a debit memo is the reverse of a purchase invoice. In NAV this is called "Purchase Credit Memo", and it is standard functionality, it's been there since I started working with NAV, and I don't think it will ever not be part of the core app.

I think you may be wrong here.
A Debit Memo will always be with the same "side" as the Invoice & has the same effect as Invoice.
A Sales Debit Memo will increase the amount of sales & Purchase Debit Memo will increase the amount of purchases.
A Purchase Credit Memo & Purchase Debit Memo is totally opposite of each other.

It is difficult for Denster to be wrong when he explains it from his perspective. I agree with Denster, a Purchase Debit memo "to me" is a purchase credit memo.

To you a purchase debit memo is the complete opposite of a purchase credit memo, which is easy, it is therefore a purchase invoice and we are all happy! Either way Navision gives you the ability to process an invoice and then reverse it, what ever you may call that (I believe traditionally it is a sales credit memo and a purchase debit memo as they are from the perspective of the customer and vendor, if you look at it form the perspective of the company they are a credit note they are issuing and a credit note they are receiving. Terminology terminology terminology )

DenSter

idiot wrote:

DenSter wrote:

So what we're really talking about here is what we call things.

To me a credit memo is the reverse of a sales invoice, and a debit memo is the reverse of a purchase invoice. In NAV this is called "Purchase Credit Memo", and it is standard functionality, it's been there since I started working with NAV, and I don't think it will ever not be part of the core app.

I think you may be wrong here.
A Debit Memo will always be with the same "side" as the Invoice & has the same effect as Invoice.
A Sales Debit Memo will increase the amount of sales & Purchase Debit Memo will increase the amount of purchases.
A Purchase Credit Memo & Purchase Debit Memo is totally opposite of each other.

We're both talking about the same functionality, we only have different names for it. So maybe the documents are not called "debit memo", but the functionality is standard in NAV.

You call it purchase debit memo, and in NAV it is called Purchase Invoice. The reverse transaction of a Purchase Invoice (or Debit Memo) is called Purchase Credit Memo in NAV.

You call it Sales Debit Memo, in NAV it is called Sales Invoice. The reverse transaction is a Sales Credit Memo.

So we agree on what it IS, but not on what we CALL it.

So here's how I was taught:
Accounts receivables are an asset, so they are debited when you charge a customer for a service or product. The document that supports that transaction is called "Sales Invoice". When a sales invoice needs to be reversed, you credit the account receivable. Due to the fact that the account receivable is CREDITED, the document that supports the transaction is called a "Credit Memo"

Accounts Payable are a liability, and when a Vendor charge is posted, the account is credited. The document to support this transaction is called "Purchase Invoice". When a purchase invoice needs to be reversed, you DEBIT the account payable, and the document to support that transaction is called a "Debit Memo" as a result.

SO:
Sales: Sales Invoice and Credit Memo
Purchase: Purchase Invoice and Debit Memo (only in NAV this is called a Purchase Credit Memo, which is a fundamentally wrong name for it)

Argonaute

On the sales side, some companies like to make the difference between (Sales) Invoices, that constitute the regular billing for the goods or servicing they trade and (Sales) Debit Memos, that represent an upward adjustement of invoices or non trade charges.

As Navision only offers Invoices for Debiting customers, I advise, when faced with this question, to use different no series, e.g. IVnnnnnn for Invoices and DNnnnnnn for Debit Notes.

Now it becomes confusing, doesn't it? Because you may as well receive a Debit Note from a supplier who adopted this practice, and which, in this case, is akin to a Purchase Invoice.

The key point here is that Credit Notes, Debit Notes and Invoices are commercial documents, that print with a title that tells their identity. In other words, document names are in the eye of the issuer, and their effect depends whether you are at the issuing or receiving end of them.

The practical guidelines are
1) determine if the 3rd party is a customer or a supplier
2) determine if you are charging them or accepting a charge
3) determine the document to use
> a If you charge a customer, use a sales invoice
> b If you accept a charge from a customer, use a sales credit memo
> c If you accept a charge from a supplier, use a purchase invoice
> d If you charge a supplier, use a purchase credit memo.

Note that in most cases, a customer doesn't issue a Debit Note to a supplier but gets a Credit note from them instead, so the cases b) and d) are usually genuinely associated with documents that print 'Credit Memo'.

idiot

DenSter wrote:

We're both talking about the same functionality, we only have different names for it. So maybe the documents are not called "debit memo", but the functionality is standard in NAV.

You call it purchase debit memo, and in NAV it is called Purchase Invoice. The reverse transaction of a Purchase Invoice (or Debit Memo) is called Purchase Credit Memo in NAV.

You call it Sales Debit Memo, in NAV it is called Sales Invoice. The reverse transaction is a Sales Credit Memo.

So we agree on what it IS, but not on what we CALL it.

So here's how I was taught:
Accounts receivables are an asset, so they are debited when you charge a customer for a service or product. The document that supports that transaction is called "Sales Invoice". When a sales invoice needs to be reversed, you credit the account receivable. Due to the fact that the account receivable is CREDITED, the document that supports the transaction is called a "Credit Memo"

Accounts Payable are a liability, and when a Vendor charge is posted, the account is credited. The document to support this transaction is called "Purchase Invoice". When a purchase invoice needs to be reversed, you DEBIT the account payable, and the document to support that transaction is called a "Debit Memo" as a result.

SO:
Sales: Sales Invoice and Credit Memo
Purchase: Purchase Invoice and Debit Memo (only in NAV this is called a Purchase Credit Memo, which is a fundamentally wrong name for it)

Argonaute is correct.
The concept of documents is different from accounting entries in the sense that they are not directly translated.

Documents like Sales/Purchase Credit/Debit Memos are the source or origin of accounting entries. These are the supporting documents for the entries posted.

In the purchase perspective, the document must come from the vendor. The vendor in their terms call it a Sales Debit Memo, but in your company you call it a Purchase Debit Memo. Essentially the term is still a Debit Memo.
From the accounting perspective, it will be credit the vendor.
The way to see it is the Purchase side, not the vendor side, hence Purchase Debit/Credit Memo, not Vendor Debit/Credit Memo.

DenSter

I understand the process perfectly. You're confirming my point that we are talking about exactly the same thing, with different names.

idiot

DenSter wrote:

I understand the process perfectly. You're confirming my point that we are talking about exactly the same thing, with different names.

I do not have a moment of doubt that you understand the process, but nope, I am not confirming your points on the documents part.
In fact, it is precisely the names that one of us is having a different perception from the norm, perhaps due to area of jurisdiction that caused difference, but I'm ending my participation in this thread.
A Debit Memo is a Debit Memo to both side in a trade, only the Sales/Purchase differs.

Savatage

Wow, that was a long read. Whole bunch to do about nothing.

How about change your property caption to whatever makes life easier.

dimus

Debit memo is a reversal of the Credit Memo. It's not the same as Invoice (forget about the side, Sales or Purchase) even though the end transactions are the same (exception is the document type). By posting the Invoice instead of a Debit Memo client is going to overstate Sales or Purchases.
NAV doesn't allow to post a Credit memo with a negative number as there's a block in GL posting.
Overall, there's no Debit memo in NAV.

generic

How does creating an invoice for credit memo overstate sales?

Credit lowers the sales. Invoice increases it.

Alex_Chow

generic wrote:

How does creating an invoice for credit memo overstate sales?

Credit lowers the sales. Invoice increases it.

If a report is ran filtering on document type of invoice.

Alex_Chow

dimus wrote:

Debit memo is a reversal of the Credit Memo. It's not the same as Invoice (forget about the side, Sales or Purchase) even though the end transactions are the same (exception is the document type). By posting the Invoice instead of a Debit Memo client is going to overstate Sales or Purchases.
NAV doesn't allow to post a Credit memo with a negative number as there's a block in GL posting.
Overall, there's no Debit memo in NAV.

You can post a sales journal with a blank document type to reversing the credit memo.

generic

Alex Chow wrote:

generic wrote:

How does creating an invoice for credit memo overstate sales?

Credit lowers the sales. Invoice increases it.

If a report is ran filtering on document type of invoice.

So? it would also filter out demit memo document type.

Alex_Chow

Right, so if debit memo is used, running a report using filter of invoice won't be counted.

generic

you would be overstating your sales, because credit memos are not included.

Alex_Chow

generic wrote:

you would be overstating your sales, because credit memos are not included.

That's true. Down to the bottom line, it'd be all the same.

But if you have a client that wants to see gross sales only (which we have), Basically, all sales excluding credit memos. You wouldn't want to double up a correction invoice.

generic

Creating a new document type an all the complexity involved in it just for a report is insanity.

I would just have a form called "Debit memo" but reality be an invoice, and would have a new boolean filed called "Debit memo" that would flow to posted and Cust ledger.

Then on the report they can filter them out.

David_Singleton

I think I have had more arguments about Navision terminology than any other aspect of the product. Its amazing how people get so tied into "their" way of calling something, that they can not change to a different term for a function or a different way of doing something.

search1110

It is a pretty funny talk between ... idiots. One deaf is talking to the other mute. The big pRofessionals did not even ask what that amateur meant, they did not agreed with the terms but they made a big, long dispute. Very nice. And yet they did not answer the question which no one understood the nature of it. Instead of asking of what that novice wants in NAV they wasted time and what is the result? None!

search1110

Oh, Oh... and again that David Singleton commented as usual with his "clever" advice. How useful is his comment? What mark will we give him? Is ZERO too much?

tinoruijs

Dear search1110,

Do you have a question regarding the subject of the post?

search1110

Hello dear Tino,
Were there questions in this post or just opinions which sometimes are useful? Sometimes. You reacted pretty fast. Thank you. But I have a question, all right. What is the nature of your job? Can we talk about ERP MS Dynamics NAV with you?

tinoruijs

search1110 wrote:

What is the nature of your job? Can we talk about ERP MS Dynamics NAV with you?

Allround NAV specialist. You can find a lot of post on mibuso about NAV. Or start a new post if you want to discuss something. Now we're completely offtopic. :-)

jglathe

search1110 is a troll with a pet peeve against David. No idea why. Thats a very old thread btw [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]