Microsoft apologie!

heca

I just want to give credit to the NavTeam blog http://blogs.msdn.com/nav/default.aspx. To me that is honest clear communication, and no corporate bullshit!

NavStudent

I agree.

They should do that more often.


I hate marketing and the department that releases and approves those documents.

I don't know where they get the questions that they answer on those documents?

If they are news, who is asking the questions?

Waldo

Well, here at Convergence, they say they're listening (and they are quite emphasizing that ... ). There is even a booth "Speak your mind" where you can record a video and complain about whatever you want ... and they assure they watch every video .

I know they are speaking very much to big partners and ISV's.

mrQQ

BlackTiger wrote:

Shame on you, MS!!! Dark times for MS are coming... :evil:

and they've been telling that since the beginning of MS..

sorry to burst your bubble, but MS will be just fine

KYDutchie

BlackTiger wrote:

I wish to have customers who tell me "No problem. Don't worry. We will wait for next couple of years until our project will be finished."

Disgusting...

PS: MS! Please build a spaceship and return back on our old sinful planet from your ancient legends. It's called Earth and located in Milky Way galaxy... Ask your wizards about location of this galaxy, they know where it is.

Black Tiger,

I'm sorry but I'd rather have my customers wait for a couple more months for a stable product, then to have to show up at the customer site all the time defending and fixing a buggy product.

I've been in ERP for 15 years and I did go thru several releases of software (None MS) that were not ready nor tested properly. I can tell you one thing. All of our customers back then wished they stayed on the old release.

I wish that MS will give you a DVD with the current 5.1(6.0) and you can go to your customers and install it. But don't come back and complain when the product does not work. Is that what you want?

Do you really think that your customers are going to be happy when they upgrade to a buggy, unstable product?

Regards,
KYDutchie

Miklos_Hollender

Heh. I guess now it would my turn to rant... but I think I'll skip it this time. The reason is that I don't really think 6.0 will be such a big thing. The new UI will look fancy at a demo but won't really help all those people who use it in real life i.e. key in lots and lots of data, and SOAP-based web services are I think just a fad. They have such an overhead that sooner or later people will return to their senses and just use REST instead, I think. So what's the big deal, why should we await it with our breath held?

KYDutchie

BlackTiger wrote:

KYDutchie wrote:

...

Please remind me how many years NAV 5.1(6.0) is "too buggy and unstable".......

None sofar....we won't know until after it has been released

Alex_Chow

BlackTiger wrote:

Situations like this never happened in "before MS" times. People in Denmark (without MS management) always was on track.

Shame on you, MS!!! Dark times for MS are coming... :evil:

Yeah... People in Denmark sure did release it when they said they would, even if the product was utter crap.

Remember when Navision Demark released version 3.0? :roll:

themave

Miklos Hollender wrote:

Heh. I guess now it would my turn to rant... but I think I'll skip it this time. The reason is that I don't really think 6.0 will be such a big thing. The new UI will look fancy at a demo but won't really help all those people who use it in real life i.e. key in lots and lots of data, and SOAP-based web services are I think just a fad. They have such an overhead that sooner or later people will return to their senses and just use REST instead, I think. So what's the big deal, why should we await it with our breath held?

Iagree completely, as an end user I have not seen anything that will improve the day to day use of the product.

Our counter sales people work in two Navision forms all day, a custom inventory screen and a sales order. role based users ect I can't see applying to a lot of people. there is nothing in it that a well designed menu can give the user. I have custom menus for each user group and just us the user menu copy function from the download section and I have role based menus.

the thought of having to constantly upgrade hardware to be able to run the software is not realistic either. it seems like the whole point of 6.0 is to have a constant stream on new Microsoft Servers is needed, for sql for share point, ect.

We started on 2.0 native database, and by far our money would have been better spent on custom programming new features into that database, then to have ever upgraded to 4.0. And don’t get me wrong I like 4.0, it is fine, it is just way slower, and doesn’t really add anything beyond a new look. But since we are on 4.0, I can’t imagine our money will be well spent upgrading to 6.0, as opposed to just paying our solution center to add features to our 4.0 database.

themave

Waldo wrote:

Well, here at Convergence, they say they're listening (and they are quite emphasizing that ... ). There is even a booth "Speak your mind" where you can record a video and complain about whatever you want ... and they assure they watch every video .

I know they are speaking very much to big partners and ISV's.

big partners and isv's yes, end users NO. I have answered every survey they have ever sent, always checked the option to allow them to contact me for followup, because my answers are so important to them. Never heard a word from them. Was nominated for the MVP, filled out all the info, never heard a word back from them, a "sorry but you didn't make it this time would have been nice."

... and they assure they watch every video . My guess is they grab a bag of popcorn and have a good laugh

Ian_Piddington10199

Alex Chow wrote:

Yeah... People in Denmark sure did release it when they said they would, even if the product was utter crap.

Remember when Navision Demark released version 3.0? :roll:

I remeber it being so bad that we pulled the release in the UK, and I wish 3.01 had been pulled as well, I still get to resolve issues from that release.

Ian

Alex_Chow

Ian_Piddington wrote:

Alex Chow wrote:

Yeah... People in Denmark sure did release it when they said they would, even if the product was utter crap.

Remember when Navision Demark released version 3.0? :roll:

I remeber it being so bad that we pulled the release in the UK, and I wish 3.01 had been pulled as well, I still get to resolve issues from that release.

Ian

I remember back then, people moaned and b*tched about why did they release a product that wasn't stable and ready.

I guess a sword has both edges...

kine

Second "BUT": NAV5.1/6 will be FIRST PURE MICROSOFT RELEASE!

Not really true. Still, the C/AL code is just what you know extended and changed, but based on the Navision code. And it is source of the problems. Some parts of this code are not optimal to be running under the new client technology. And the code must be changed. And tested.

You know the situation, when you thought that everything is OK, that the modification is working etc. and when somebody just click one button and whole application crash. This situations are the "release date killers". The small things, that have big impact. And you cannot see them when you are planning and developing. Because if you are developing big change, you cannot take into account all small things which would be problem when you connect the application to another one.

It is like big puzzle with 100000 pieces. It can look like some pieces are connected correctly, but after you have last 10 pieces you will find out that you cannot connect them.

Now imagine to connect new client (totaly new piece of technology) to the old C/AL code. And it must work for 99%. And you had just few years to develop whole client and connect it to the existing application. I remember the time, when the C/AL translation into C# was on the level of "Hello world!" (first year as MVP). And it is not so long time. In this time the Dynamics client was on level of PPT screenshots made by editor and not by taking screenshots of existing application.

Yes, the release date postponing is not good. Mainly for me, because we do not have NAV 5.0 and it will took some time now when the NAV 5.00 will be released in Czech republic. We are selling same version for last 3-4 years. And we want from our customer to pay maintenance fees... Yes, it is problem, but what you can do with that? You can just go and change the company for which you are working. E.g. you can go and work for some company working with Linux. I will be happier if I could work on Linux, but I cannot, because my work is to develop in NAV. But I am not writing the big worlds about that I hate MS and that they did their job badly.

Yes, I do not like MS policy, but I understand it. And it is what everyone needs. Understanding. I do not need to agree with everything, but I understand...

Uff, sorry for that long text, but after I read through this thread, I needed to post something about all that. 8)

p.willemse6

Trying to not write an emotional reaction -- Switch to friendly mode --
You should read back your comments in a year, or whatever time you need to get yourself over the dissappointment we all feel, and look what you wrote....

BlackTiger wrote:

Alex Chow wrote:

BlackTiger wrote:

Situations like this never happened in "before MS" times. People in Denmark (without MS management) always was on track.

Shame on you, MS!!! Dark times for MS are coming... :evil:

Yeah... People in Denmark sure did release it when they said they would, even if the product was utter crap.

Remember when Navision Demark released version 3.0? :roll:

Yep. First "3.0" was a kind of joke (We had only 1-2 customers running 3.01 version, no customers running "3.0"). This version died quickly without big pain. BUT! HUGE "BUT" ( :-# )! They have released it! And it was stable enough. NAV4 is still based on original danish code. NAV4 - is just a fixed and improved NAV3. Who blames those developers? Nobody! Because they did their job previously and in next releases (3.6, 4.x). NAV3 wasn't first release and wasn't last one. NAV4 - is a great product.

Second "BUT": NAV5.1/6 will be FIRST PURE MICROSOFT RELEASE! And they have FAILED to deliver it! I strongly recommend them to move couple of people from "WinServer" team to NAV team to put train back onto the rails.

Darren_Laybourn

I thought I would try and take a shot at clarifying what Microsoft was trying to do with this post.

Nobody is proud of the fact that the date has been missed. In fact I think that is what I said in the first paragraph:

Nobody ever wants to miss a commitment that they make, and with the move of our delivery date from H1 to H2 of 2008, that is the situation we as a Dynamics NAV R&D team find ourselves in right now. This reality is very disappointing for all of us, and definitely not what we hoped for , but I have to say that I am as excited as I have ever been about the product we are building and I am confident that you will find that the product will definitely be worth the additional wait.

What, I was honestly trying to convey is that while we are deeply, deeply disappointed with the amount of time that the release has taken, we are still also excited to complete it and get it in your hands.

We had great opportunities to show the work and drill down more on the features at Directions in the US and again this week in Germany at the technical airlift. We have relished the chance to work with those of you who were at the events and discuss the product and we are looking forward to working together in the future to make sure NAV 6.0 is a great release.

Yes we blew the date.

Sometimes people are just telling you what they think and not trying to spin you. That was the case here.

Thanks