Sicko - must for any US citizen

Savatage

Just saw "Sicko" (the movie) quite an eye opener and i would recommend it to any US citizen who thinks our gov is looking out for us and our well being. :roll:

Universal Heathcare, perhaps this is an issue we finally all can agree on [-o<

DenSter

I don't think that will ever happen in the US, as much as that would solve many health care problems.

Savatage

The HMO's have so much money & power now, they seem to be able to thwart any ideas of change :sick:

I thought it was sad that the 9-11 rescue workers in the movie had to go Cuba to get the help they needed :-k

DenSter

You know I am looking forward to the day that we can sit and have a beer together, and talk about these things

davmac1

I remember when medical costs were 7% of GDP and they said if we did not do anything about it, it would double to 16%.
We did not do anything about it and now it is 16% on the way to 20%.

The real problem is medical expenses are far too high in this country.
The doctors blame the insurance companies.

Whether we pay for it out of our own pockets or through taxes, it is far too much, and getting worse.

Savatage

have you ever heard of anybody having a pleasent experience dealing with a health insurance company.

Not I :-# - their job is to get away with providing as little care as possible so their bottom line looks better.

DenSter

I used to have to 'prenotify' or pay 20% of the health care. That meant sitting on the phone for half an hour while someone verified that the doctor was in network. They said it saved about half the cost though, so I didn't have a choice. It was very unpleasant.

My health insurance has doubled twice over the past three years, and now that I am a business owner it is likely to increase again. I can't complain too much though, because it has paid for three back surgeries for my son, and I would not be surprised if there would be another.

There should be a universal health insurance, a basic coverage for everyone, regardless of job, social status, whatever. Just your basics, such as some level of Rx, emergency visits, life threatening care, stuff that everyone needs anyway.

It's never going to happen in the US though.

Savatage

my son has PCKD and he is covered now under my insurance, but in the future when he or others try to get their own insurance they will probably be denied due to having a "Pre-Existing Condition".

And the list of Condition's keep growing everyday so they can DENY DENY DENY!

gvolkov

Story:

A frind of mine had a small surgery. He got a bill - $8000
He could not afford it. So after numerous reminders hospital sent him, he went to the hospital to see what can be done.
He spoke to a lady, and told her that there is no way he can afford this. She went to the back, and came back saying that they would accept 50% ($4000.00)
My friend said, its still not the amount he would be able to pay in cash. So they offered him 50% again!!! $2000.00
The bill became $2000.00 instead of $8000.00

The question is: How much did the surgery really cost? Price is one thing, whats the COST? Not talking about profits!

Alex_Chow

The medical profession in this country has turned into a business. So instead of viewing doctors as someone that wants to treat your pains, but viewing them as businessman, helped me understand the things they do.

Doctors overbill because the insurance companies pays them a negotiated rate on the area. So if all doctors in the area charge $1,000 for a checkup, they will get paid more from the insurance company.

A lot of doctors are also legalized drug dealers. Pushing you to buy medicine you don't really need. They do this to maximize profits and earnings. Just like any business. The arguement of "doctors make enough already" doesn't really apply because money is never enough.

To find a comparison, you don't have to go too far. Just look at the consulting industry. There are always solution centers that overcharge and under deliver. Their reason? Maximize profits.

People seem to forget what profession they're in. Some people really believe that they're in the profession of making money. It's quite sad really...

Savatage

I think the doctors become a victim of the system too. There will always be ones out there in it for the money but I believe the majority got into medicine to help others. It's the system that ties their hands.

Life & death should not be a business decision - the question then is have we gone past the point of no return. Should we just say "Well, that's just the way it is!". Rich getting richer & poor getting poorer - a country of have's & have not's will surely crumble maybe not in my lifetime but the road we are on will end in a brick wall.

**another point of the Documentary was how so many other countries pay for college tuitions. Now people who graduate college are already thousands of dollars in Debt before they even enter the workforce (if they had to take loans out). But that's another post. #-o

Alex_Chow

Savatage wrote:

Life & death should not be a business decision - the question then is have we gone past the point of no return. Should we just say "Well, that's just the way it is!". Rich getting richer & poor getting poorer - a country of have's & have not's will surely crumble maybe not in my lifetime but the road we are on will end in a brick wall.

Every great society has to crumble someday, just look at the Roman empire, the Chinese dynasties, and ancient Egypt.

I think the problems that they have back then is most likely the same to problems we have today. The technology and technique might be different, but the underlying issues are the same. This is why History Always Repeats Itself.

Savatage

and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
-Lincoln "The Gettysburg Address"

I wonder what will happen now that it's
"Of the big companies, by the big companies, for the big companies"

Alex_Chow

I think there's a footnote somewhere that says "Subject to change without prior notice"

Miklos_Hollender

I'm not really sure public healthcare works better than private one. I mean here in the UK it's public, the doctors are paid by the state and the NHS is second largest employer of the world after the Chinese Army and still, the quality is not so good.

I think it's always safe to assume that private works better than public unless there are some very convincing reports of a public system that works well and also some explanations why, as the general common sense says that neither entrepreneurs in a private system, nor bureaucrats in a public system give a sh*t about actually healing people, but in the private one competition and consumer choice helps keeping things at least marginally effective. And besides, there is something morally and ethically wrong about taxing sober, healthy-living, hard-working middle-class people in order to provide free care for some alcoholist ne'er-do-well in the slums.

And by the way, why believe Michael Moore? That guy is a quite dedicated left-liberal activist, I'd even say a radical one, who has absolutely no respect neither for the traditions that make successful nations so, neither for reality, for that matter. And he also proved himself to be a first class liar with Fahrenheit 9/11. If you've seen that movie, how can you believe anything he says?

Savatage

You don't have to be a Michael Moore fan to understrand there is a problem here. I know for a fact that our Heathcare cost go up every year without fail. In fact it's so expensive that most of our lower paid warehouse workers don't have any. Mainly because if they did pay for their part of the Healthcare Insurance we provide it will still only leave them with $10 to their name for the rest of the month.

Note: this movie isn't about Conservatives Vs Liberals or vice versa. He goes after officals on both sides for accepting $$$ from Pharmacuetical & healthcare companies who set the prices and tell you what will be covered or not. Middle & lower income families are being priced right out of any care.

Being from NY - I see on the News everyday about 9-11 rescue workers sick and/or dying due to the effects of breathing in the dust & gases. & they all are having a tough time trying to find help.

The Auto industry too is dying :

Detroit automakers cover the health care expenses of both current and former union members — more than 1.1 million of them combined — and their dependents. That adds up to an annual bill of about $12 billion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/busin ... ref=slogin

ara3n

In the movie he doesn't suggest a government run healthcare system.

He actually states the insurance companies should be for non-profit instead of profit.

Miklos_Hollender

OK, maybe I'm just too paranoid - this side of the ocean so many intellectuals have this horrible commie "the state should manage the commons, bureaucracy is cool" idea that I sometimes jump the gun.

Suggestion: check out the Libertarian answer. I bet that's the most reasonable one - usually that is. For example, mises.org - that's one really great website, really enlightened me about economics. David Friedman also published his great economics book, Price Theory on the Internet: http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/ ... y_ToC.html - this one I can suggest as well. Well, this is not directly about health care, but generally about how public and private economic systems work etc.