SQL2005 Hangups...

Phenno

Hi all...

I'm experiencing a strange hangups on client site:

SQL 2005
NAV 4.0 SP3

one navision is acting normal (and that one is on the same machine as sql server)
others are experiencing extreme hangs, kind of => whatever you click in NAV, you wait for a minut or a while for response.

Turned-off firewalls and any additional AV SWs on both machines... First time we turned off AV on server (Kaspersky) other started to work normally but second time turning off Kaspersky produced nothing like that.

Don't know is this related to
viewtopic.php?t=13154&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
or maybe to network problem...

Marije_Brummel

It does not sound like that problem but more indeed like a network issue of somekind.

Have you tried to connect to the SQL server terminal server session from a client and checked performance?

Phenno

Mark Brummel wrote:

It does not sound like that problem but more indeed like a network issue of somekind.

Have you tried to connect to the SQL server terminal server session from a client and checked performance?

Nope... didn't have too much time for testing in that moment. I only tried some turning on/off firewalls, avs and other security programs.


One note: network is wireless (on linksys switch I think).


P.S. If this sounds more like a network issue then I will ask admins to move the thread to appropriate forum, kindly.

DenSter

First thing you need to do is to plug that computer into the network with a network cable. You don't want a NAV user on a wireless. I am sure there are many happy wireless users, but it is just not as reliable as a wired connection.

Marije_Brummel

I did a go-live on wireless a couple of years ago. The time we went to cable was within hours.

Phenno

Mark Brummel wrote:

I did a go-live on wireless a couple of years ago. The time we went to cable was within hours.

Why? Slow response?

Unfortunately, this is out of the option at this moment (technically)...

Marije_Brummel

Yes, the performance was terrible and moving to cable for us was easy.

bbrown

If you need to support wireless users, then connect them via Terminal Servers/Citrix and have the TS/Citrix box on a fast (1GB) wired connection.

Savatage

Wireless is convenient only. I have a PC at home that's wireless and one that's connected - I never use the wireless - everything takes too long.

DenSter

The only thing wireless is good for is for mobility, so you can move your laptop around the office for concalls or meetings, and still be able to get emails and things like that. Nobody should have wireless as their main network access point, especially ERP users.

thaug

Not to mention the huge security holes you open up with wireless connections, especially when connecting to consumer grade equipment.

Like others have mentioned, a TS/Citrix environment is a must in this situation, and not that difficult or expensive to set up.

Phenno

thaug wrote:

Not to mention the huge security holes you open up with wireless connections, especially when connecting to consumer grade equipment.

Like others have mentioned, a TS/Citrix environment is a must in this situation, and not that difficult or expensive to set up.

I'm not concerned about security, they did their best to ensure it (strong hashes, wep2 etc...) but, now, I'm concerned for about wireless problems that you mentioned...

thaug

I know of NO consumer wireless product (ie, Linksys), that provides strong enough security to allow for ERP data to be sent over it. There is ALWAYS a way to break encryption on consumer grade equipment. And anyone who tries to tell you that consumer grade wireless equipment is secure does not know what they are talking about. Even higher end equipment is subject to breaches.

Either go wired, or TS/Citrix. Assume no other options exist.

David_Singleton

Phenno wrote:

I'm not concerned about security, they did their best to ensure it (strong hashes, wep2 etc...) but, now, I'm concerned for about wireless problems that you mentioned...

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I guess its not your data, but still you need to be concerned.

Off topic a little, but there was a great security session at Tech ED last year. This guy was showing just how easy it was to hack into WiFi networks. He would just park his van outside a building and then tap in.

Be concerned, be very concerned.

bbrown

There was an article in our local paper a few months ago. It seems people a cruising residential streets, with a wireless laptop, and hacking into people's wireless connection and stealing personal info (credit card numbers, etc.) from their computers.

Phenno

David Singleton wrote:

Phenno wrote:

I'm not concerned about security, they did their best to ensure it (strong hashes, wep2 etc...) but, now, I'm concerned for about wireless problems that you mentioned...

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I guess its not your data, but still you need to be concerned.

Off topic a little, but there was a great security session at Tech ED last year. This guy was showing just how easy it was to hack into WiFi networks. He would just park his van outside a building and then tap in.

Be concerned, be very concerned.

No need to be "shocked" people, I'm perfectly well aware of security flows in wireless environments. The thing is that they (our client) do implementations of wireless networks and I'm not in position to give them any kind of advice in that particular area. They understand what problems could have with wireless connections but still choose to use it. That's why I said that I'm not concerned about that topic.

Pls, get back to the topic (Wireless security could be a fine but rather new thread).

Problem is hangups (actually constant very slow response) and the questions is Is this related to sql2005 <=> NAV 4.0 sp3 issue or simple wireless network problem.

Could anyone confirm that if you use wireless network, NAV will work very slow (anyone experienced that)?

bbrown

Connect a wired workstation and see if the problem exist there.

Phenno

bbrown wrote:

Connect a wired workstation and see if the problem exist there.

Not an option at this moment (as I said earlier) but I will try to convince them to make an test wired connection...

bbrown

I don't believe you

1. If you are using anything resembling a real server, then it will have a built-in network adapter.

2. Any workstation bought in the last 5 years has usually come with a netwoek adapter. Even if not, they are cheap money.

3. Move a workstation over to the server and buy a cheap 4 port hub. Or use a cross-over cable.

DenSter

I find that difficult to believe also. My wireless router also has ports to plug in wires, and I imagine that business grade routers also have this capability.

David_Singleton

Phenno wrote:

bbrown wrote:

Connect a wired workstation and see if the problem exist there.

Not an option at this moment (as I said earlier) but I will try to convince them to make an test wired connection...

I think the point is that EVERY reply you have so far suggests that the Wireless network is probably the issue, but you don't seem to want that to be the problem. If you can suggest the answer that you really want to hear, then we can reply with that answer. ](*,)

Savatage

I just switched a 24 port 10/100 hub to a 24 10/100/1000 port switch - willing to part with the hub for a very low price 8)

DenSter

Phenno wrote:

No need to be "shocked" people, I'm perfectly well aware of security flows in wireless environments. The thing is that they (our client) do implementations of wireless networks and I'm not in position to give them any kind of advice in that particular area. They understand what problems could have with wireless connections but still choose to use it. That's why I said that I'm not concerned about that topic.

Pls, get back to the topic (Wireless security could be a fine but rather new thread).

No I don't think you get it. I personally think (and some other with me) that switching to wired network could potentially solve ALL the problems. You can tweak your database from here into 2009 and bill for all of it (maybe you see a gold mine here and want that to happen). You don't understand the kind of network traffic NAV generates, and a wireless network is not the right way to handle that.

In the best interest of your customer, you should test a wired connection. In the long run that can save them large sums of money.

ara3n

I think any company that setups wireless network should block sql ports on it. Those users should use rdp in order to connect.

Phenno

Come on, people, stop assuming please. :evil:

When I say "it is not an option at this moment" means that they are using those machines for several purposes and I cannot force them (at least didn't succeed yet) to Move machines or stretch the cables... (yes I may bring a laptop and say to them (look, this is working). Even if I found that wired connections solves those blocks, They Don't Want To Move To Wired Environments And I Cannot Force Them. They have own reasons for that, for example, they are in multicompany building and they have number of rooms with passages between where no cables should be placed.

You Do understand that, sometimes, customers are in front of other. After all We are serving them and in this testing phase still On Me is to convince them that they have to move to wired environment (apparently).

I WILL EVENTUALLY TEST WIRED CONNECTION.

The Question of this thread WAS "could it be SQL or Wireless".

Few of you told "Yes It Could Be Wireless" and when I said "I cannot test it at this moment" everyone jumped like I fallen from planet Mars...

Unbilivable, that's only I will say. :roll:

bbrown

Troubleshooting involves the systematic elimination of potentional causes. There is a strong potential that the wireless network is a major contributor to your performance issues. Testing this theory is a fairly easy task for you and low cost for your client. Blindly chasing assumed SQL issues will be much more costly. I don't understand the resistance to performing this very simple test.

Phenno

bbrown wrote:

Troubleshooting involves the systematic elimination of potentional causes. There is a strong potential that the wireless network is a major contributor to your performance issues. Testing this theory is a fairly easy task for you and low cost for your client. Blindly chasing assumed SQL issues will be much more costly. I don't understand the resistance to performing this very simple test.

There is no resistance to perform a simple test and there is no assuming of any kind (assuming is mother of all fuck-ups...).
I have scheduled meeting with them in a few days where I will try to do a test on site.

I was already planning to do that but you are faster with conclusions and assumptions than my scheduled visit to client.

Bottom line is that they do not want (or cannot do) wired environment and they have a reason for that. I can only say to them, Go Wired or use Navision where Wired is possible (small part of office). Or to use TS.

That issue has nothing to do with Navision, simple distributed offices across the building. I was just seeking for an advice to see is it related to sql or wireless.

I really do not understand where did all of you pick up such opinions about my negation of wireless problem...

thaug

Please refrain from using such language on this board. It is simply not necessary to convey what you are trying to say.

I can understand your problems with clients, as they more often than not have a different thought process than we do. But, when you ask if this is a wireless or SQL issue, let's first examine what it is like on a wired connection. Trying to resolve a SQL issue is moot at this point.

Let's wait to see what you find with testing on a wired connection.

Phenno

thaug wrote:

Please refrain from using such language on this board. It is simply not necessary to convey what you are trying to say.

I can understand your problems with clients, as they more often than not have a different thought process than we do. But, when you ask if this is a wireless or SQL issue, let's first examine what it is like on a wired connection. Trying to resolve a SQL issue is moot at this point.

Let's wait to see what you find with testing on a wired connection.

Just misunderstanding, I think... Never mind, I did overreact so my apologies to whomever is found offended.

DenSter

Don't worry about it, you're clearly passionate about finding a solution. I think with the language there might be a misunderstanding, because I don't think anybody was assuming anything.

Let me try a little ascii art..... The problem could be SQL Server, and could be wireless. The wireless is always:
PROBLEM!!!!!

where the SQL Server issue could be:
problem
problem
problem
PROBLEM!!!!!

Now you want to spend days/weeks trying to figure out:
- IF you have a SQL Server problem
- How big that problem is

Or do you want to tell your customer that they could spend that money right away on finding a solution to either:
- wiring their office after all
- investing in TS to host NAV

My choice would be pretty clear.

Phenno

DenSter wrote:

Or do you want to tell your customer that they could spend that money right away on finding a solution to either:
- wiring their office after all
- investing in TS to host NAV

One question:
If wireless is a problem (haven't do testing yet on customer site) would be TS enough to support wireless users?

Unfortunately they cannot go wired unless they buy/move other offices that are near enough. They have few hallways where they aren't allowed to place a cable