Multiple Application Servers

Timor
Timor Member Posts: 16
edited 2008-02-11 in NAV/Navision Classic Client
I have 50 instances of application server installed on one server, and 50 application servers in my navision license.
Somehow I can only start 25 of these services. When application server no. 26 attempts to start I get an error message:

"Could not start the Navision Application Server xxx service on Local Computer.
Error 1053: The service did not respond to the start or control request in a timely fashion."

In the eventlog i see this error message:

"Timeout (30000 milliseconds) waiting for the Navision Application Server xxx service to connect. "

If I set the service to run as "LocalSystem", the service will start, but it would not be able to log on to Navision.

If i create an application server on a different server, logging on to the same database server, everything works fine, so the license seems to be correct with 50 application server sessions.

Anyone?

Tommy

Comments

  • svensk.tiger
    svensk.tiger Member Posts: 31
    Have you tried to start the NAS with a different users accout?

    May be, there is a logon limit for a single user in windows.
    Svensk.Tiger (Henning Möller)
    PASS Multibank Solutions AG
    (Kaum macht man was richtig, schon geht es. / Once you do it right, suddenly it works.)
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    Yes, I have tried that.
    Same error message appears.

    Tommy
  • svensk.tiger
    svensk.tiger Member Posts: 31
    Another point ist, to start each NAS from a different program directory.

    Copy c:\Program files\Navision...\Application Server\*.* to
    c:\Program files\Navision...\Application Server-2 and so on.
    Svensk.Tiger (Henning Möller)
    PASS Multibank Solutions AG
    (Kaum macht man was richtig, schon geht es. / Once you do it right, suddenly it works.)
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    I've done that.

    This has to be done to get multiple Application Servers to start at all I believe.


    Tommy
  • IHateLinux
    IHateLinux Member Posts: 223
    Hi,

    what backend do you use? Native DB or SQL?

    It looks like there is a connection limit.

    Can you try to open on the machine a normal Navision client and try to connect then as the 26. user?
    What Navision version do you use?

    HTH,

    Rainer
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    I use the native db. Version 3.70A.

    I have connected 30 users on the same machine, 150 users in total.
    I can connect over 30 Application Servers if I separate it on 2 different servers, but that is unfortunately not an option :/


    Tommy
  • IHateLinux
    IHateLinux Member Posts: 223
    Hi,

    so you are able to connect more than 25 users from the same machine. Are these all the same user accounts?
    Did you start them in the same Windows session?

    I am wondering because of the size of 25. Have you tried to run 20 NAS with one account and the next 10 NAS with another account?

    HTH,
  • aohlfsen
    aohlfsen Member Posts: 30
    Just a thought.

    Do you use object-cache on the NAS's clients?

    If so do you have enough ram in the server.

    E.g. 50 nas client X MB object cache equals 1.5 GB ram.
  • aohlfsen
    aohlfsen Member Posts: 30
    Sorry. Should have said:

    E.g. 50 nas client X e.g. 30 MB object cache equals 1.5 GB ram.
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    I use object cache, but I have decreased the cache to 1 mb per nas server. The server has over 3 GB available ram, so that could not be it.

    IHateLinux: I've also tried running with different accounts. The only account I can use that allows me to start the application server service is LocalSystem.
  • bbrown
    bbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    To use another account, you must grant it the "Log on as service" right.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    The rights to log on as a service is automatically granted when you change the "log on as"-user in the Windows-service snapin in W2K, so that should not be the cause of the problem.
  • bbrown
    bbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    This was not to imply that this was the problem. Just a note to verify the settings. Snap-ins are just user interfaces, if things do not work, don't assume the interface is working.

    Error 1053 results when a service status change (start, stop) does not return a result to the O/S within a certain time. The service may not have failed, but may still be starting

    A few things to look at/consider:

    1. There have been several hotfixes released for both Win2000 & Win2003 addressing Error 1053 issue. Be sure lasted updates are installed including .NET framework

    2. The most NAS services I have run on a single server is 22, so I am not sure if there is any upper limit. Did I understand from your original post, that you are able to start 50 NAS if using the LocalSystem account (minus Navision access)? Look at what is occuring in Navision during startup.

    3. Why is a second server for NAS not an option? Depending what NAS is doing I would question the ability of one cpu to provide sufficient resources to run 50 sessions.

    I will post more if I think of anything..
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    1. I will have to verify that all the hotfixes are installed. I assume they are, but need to verify this.

    2. Yes, I can start 50 NAS if I use the LocalSystem account. If I use the LocalSystem account, I get an error message in the eventlog saying : "Microsoft Business Solutions-Navision has not been set up to allow you to use Windows login. Contact your system manager..". This is of course all wrong, as all the other users connect with Windows Logon, and also the other 25 NAS.

    3. The server is a 2 x 3 Ghz CPU machine with GB RAM and the NAS-tasks is only small and periodic. The resources should be sufficent for my use.


    I appreciate all the help I can get. I am really stuck. :)
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    Sorry, 16 GB RAM.
  • bbrown
    bbrown Member Posts: 3,268
    Can you clarify a few things for me?

    1. You have 50 instances of NAS configured on 1 computer. (I will refer to them as (NAS-01 thru NAS-50).

    2. You can start NAS-01 thru NAS-25, but when you attemot to start NAS-26 it fails.

    3. What if you try to start NAS-26 thru NAS-50? Or does it not matter which 25 are started first.

    NOTE:

    I believe NAS has the same limitations as the native DB server. It is not multi-processor aware, and can access only the first GB of RAM.
    There are no bugs - only undocumented features.
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    I have 50 NAS configured on 1 computer.
    I can only start 25 instances no matter what order. I can start NAS-01 - 25, NAS-26 - 50 or NAS-10 - 35.

    When I try to start the 26th instance it fails.

    Even with the limitations you described, I should be able to start more than 25 NAS with only 1 MB object cache each. I do believe the resources is sufficent.
  • IHateLinux
    IHateLinux Member Posts: 223
    Hi,

    another question:
    Have you tried to create a second NAS user and then start NAS01-25 with NAS user 1 and NAS26-50 with NAS user 2?
    Again, i think it is somewhat a limitation in DB connection. Because even if you can try to start 50 NAS with local system, they are NOT connected to the database.

    HTH,
    Rainer
  • aohlfsen
    aohlfsen Member Posts: 30
    You say the nas starts ok using the local system account.

    This may be a stupid question but do you among your windows logon accounts in Navision have the user called something like

    "NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM"

    (this i the local system account) and does this user have an appropriate role attached?
  • IHateLinux
    IHateLinux Member Posts: 223
    Hi,

    this should not work because every Windows Account has its own SID (Security ID). And the Local System account of the machine running NAS is different that the machine running the database. Even if you have a Windows domain, there is no domain wide Local System account.

    HTH,
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    IHateLinux: I've tried a second user as you suggested. Same error message.
  • ptech5443
    ptech5443 Member Posts: 28
    Where you able to get this resolved? I am running into the same error when trying to start the Navision service on a win 2003 server. The time-out happens much faster then the 30 second time-out.
  • Waldo
    Waldo Member Posts: 3,412
    I might have a solution to your problem:

    We have created a NAS scheduler. We created this to avoid having to buy and maintain one NAS instance for every company in Navision. You can find more info here: http://www.ifacto.be/default.aspx?page=nasscheduler_eng

    We had an issue with one of our customers that he needed for every company in his database (+70) NAS running for interfacing with a third application. That's why we built a NAS scheduler. Only needs minimum 2 NAS instances (if you use more, the performance is better) and easier to maintain/configure... .

    Eric Wauters
    MVP - Microsoft Dynamics NAV
    My blog
  • Timor
    Timor Member Posts: 16
    I solved the problem by uninstalling Terminal Services on the Application Server computer.

    Somehow you can't start more than +/- 25 NAS (or possibly nt services at all) with "Log on As" different than the local system account on a W2K server.


    Tommy
  • elf
    elf Member Posts: 4
    Hi Timor,

    I have the same problem when starting the 26th NAS -> 1035...
    It is no solution for me to uninstall terminal services because I need to maintan the server serval times a day. Did you find another solution for your problem?
    Eddie
  • elf
    elf Member Posts: 4
    Hi Timor,

    look here ->http://support.microsoft.com/kb/184802/en-us
    that solved my problem, I can start more then 40 NAS-services, and terminal-services are still installed and working...
    Eddie

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