Documentation = End User Assistance

BestTechWriter · 2005-05-10

I am a technical writing hired as a contractor working with their new software, NAVISION. Right now, everyone is on 'PAYABLES' mostly in the financial management area of the software. Can anyone tell me where the DOCUMENTATION is for Navision. What the VAR left was sketchy at best during their implementation (very incomplete). My users aren't happy. The help is a little too complex; I'm looking for the 'nitty gritty' on Financial Management (e.g., "Click this to do that...").

I'm open to all ideas!

Can any suggest:
a) a Navision guide that we can; can't seem to find anything locally at the bookstores or via Amazon
b) a PUBLISHER that might have good end-user documentation for the Financial Management section.
c) I've seen a few posts or rumors that you can go to Microsoft to get documentation. Is this true? And who do I contact? I believe the company is a Microsoft Partner, but how do we navigate that maze to reach the right folks...

I am deeply frustrated and wondered why 4.0 seems to have very little to go on to assist the average office worker who has to use this software daily to do their job. Help please...Much appreciated...

Sleepless in My Part of the World...

](*,)

Savatage · 2005-05-10

What isn't the Navision "HELP" telling you?

BestTechWriter · 2005-05-10

In our office, we couldn't access the help until today, due to some Activex error we were receiving. That was the main driver for me seeing outside assistance - meaning an external book. I'm now printing it out for us. So, let me get back to you on what it's not. I'm sure my users will have me hunting for answers soon. Thanks for your quick reply.

Any other sources is much appreciated.

TechWriter

orossi · 2005-05-13

Hi!
If you need information about Navision funcionality, the Attain 3.70 documentation may be suitable for you for the basics, then the functionality upgrades and modification could be derived from the system directly. It can be downloaded from the mibuso.com web site. I didn't find the same documentation regarding version 4.00 yet, but still searching. If you happen to find that, please let me know.
In my company we're starting the migration process from version 2.6 to version 4.00 and didn't find the \doc folder that came in 2.60 Navision CD.
I've read anywhere in the net that Microsoft didn't release the documentation about version 4.00 yet, but I don't believe this.
Regards.

jm · 2005-05-13

Hallo BestTechWriter,

i asume that you are using Navision 4.0.

Did you (your company) contact your NSC because of the Activex error?

Do you have the Update 1 installed?

Is the "Activex error" realy an error or only a warning message?

br
Josef Metz

BestTechWriter · 2005-05-13

Hi, we are on 4.0, however the answer above about 'unregistering' the DLL worked, however we are too afraid to do that in production because we are not sure what else that will do and we cannot afford to have any more issues in production with Navision :-s .

I am the documentation specialist, so I desparately needed that Activex error to go away so that I could freely investigate the help materials, but it was just done on my machine and I work solely on Navision from a local, QA-type database. So, we didn't release that DLL fix into production; unregistereing the company DLL.

I will pass on that update 1 for Navision and mention that to the developer in charge here and maybe he'll know more. thanks for the info!

otterhound · 2005-06-22

We just got our delivery of the 4.0 disk. If there is any end-user documentation, I sure couldn't find it. There is good documentation of installation, security and backup, but that is where it ends.

The help file is a joke. To the poster who asked what isn't in the help, I'll give you an example: how do you use non-posting GL accounts? Do you always need to use a beginning total and ending total account? Are they necessary to get reports to sum correctly? That is nowhere in the help. There is no conceptual end user discussion anywhere.

It is extremely frustrating. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the lack of documentation is intentional to make sure that the resellers can make a lot of money on training classes that would be unnecessary if there were just a decent manual!

Luc_VanDyck · 2005-06-22

otterhound wrote:

[...] the lack of documentation is intentional to make sure that the resellers can make a lot of money on training classes that would be unnecessary if there were just a decent manual!

Are you really want to implement some ERP-software in your company, just by reading a decent manual? The setup is more complex than can be read in a book. It depends on your situation, your bookkeeping-practices etc. That's why some user-training and implementation-guidance is necessary before you can even start with it.

otterhound · 2005-06-22

A Boeing 747 airplane is a very complex system too. But can you imagine Boeing delivering a 747 to a customer with no documentation? It is absurd to even think about.

Luc_VanDyck · 2005-06-22

And can you imagine learning to fly this Boeing, just by reading the manual?

otterhound · 2005-06-22

What are you saying? Are you saying that there should be no manuals and the user should be totally dependent on the reseller?

What I hear you say is manuals must be supplemented by reseller help. Fine. I won't argue that point.

But there are NO user manuals. The \doc folder has excellent installation and application developer manuals, but not even the most basic system overview manuals. Why should I have to pay the reseller just to explain to me what advantages non-posting G/L accounts provide? That could be covered in 3 pages in a manual.

I understand that Great Plains has user manuals. Apparently someone thought that software end users deserved such manuals.

DenSter · 2005-06-22

It would be nice to have a book that you can buy that explains everything about Navision. It would be nice to have a Matrix chair, where someone can plug in a probe in the back of your head and upload everything.

I have always been able to find all information about functionality that I ever needed in F1 help. I don't understand why people have such a problem having to look a little.

otterhound · 2005-06-22

DenSter wrote:

It would be nice to have a book that you can buy that explains everything about Navision. It would be nice to have a Matrix chair, where someone can plug in a probe in the back of your head and upload everything.

Not a valid comparison. With a bit of effort, someone can write a manual. I don't believe that someone could provide a Matrix chair today no matter how hard they tried.

As a customer, the impression I come away with from these replies is that you guys don't give a damn about the customer. I bet you don't disclose to the customer before the sale that he will receive no manuals. You don't say, "I want you to shell out tens of thousands of dollars for this software, but you won't get a manual." My reseller sure didn't tell me this. If he had, I would have thought twice before buying. Now I'm out 5 figures, and I'm stuck having to reverse engineer the software just to figure out how it works. Wow, what a deal.

BestTechWriter · 2005-06-22

Otterhound is dead on target with his comments. It sounds like we work at the same place. Yikes! That's scary that this is being done all over the country :evil: .

Otter, I think we should just forget posting this stuff to these boards since this seems to be a place run by VARs or Programmers making a lot of money on folks like us. And the person who wrote that the stuff about the 'matrix chair' is just beyond silly that they don't warrant a reply. Otter, let's think about this - the very folks making money money off our ignorance of the software's nuanaces are the very folks who have a lot to lose if good books came to market. You wouldn't need them to tell you t he advantages of a non-posting G/L if it were written someplace. Yes, I agree the User Guides needs to be supplemented w/ the VAR, but that's not happening. Also, has anyone seen a NAVISION glossary tab within the help? #-o

Let's hope that since Microsoft took over that in 5 years from now we will see some great writing in proper English with the proper formatting and information mapping in the future. Microsoft Press does a relatively good job with their Step-by-Step books. I suspect that in the next five to ten years, the folks who have been made rich on Navision implementations are going to start to feel the pinch as this software takes off more strongly in America and captialism starts to take over - supply & demand. We will see more programmers team with writers to write EFFECTIVE books, cheat cheats, quick guides, and job aids. I imagine more writers, such as myself, will sit and attack this software and perform the due diligence of writing it RIGHT. And not just writing it good enough to sell with the hopes that the VAR can make an extra $50 or $100K on the training aspect.

There's a new book on Amazon coming in August for Navision, and I imagine that within a few years the U.S. publishing market for Navision will grow quite rapidly as demand increases. We will see more and folks get on the bandwagon for $$$$. Right now, the $$$ is in the training and the 'info gaps' :^o and reliance on the VAR [-X , when the money leaves the info gaps and moves into the documentation delivery, then these very same folks on this message board will be teaming with to write those books! Right now, it's not worth it for them...MONEY talks... =D>

Savatage · 2005-06-22

DenSter wrote:

I have always been able to find all information about functionality that I ever needed in F1 help. I don't understand why people have such a problem having to look a little.

=D>

You can also print it out & put it in a binder - that's my book
I also put some things here : http://www.geocities.com/navision_attain/

BestTechWriter · 2005-06-22

DenSter wrote:

I have always been able to find all information about functionality that I ever needed in F1 help. I don't understand why people have such a problem having to look a little.

>> to the comment I above I say simply, GREAT FOR YOU DenSter [-X . I guess the rest of us M.B.A.s and PH.D.s are just dumb folks who can't figure it out. We'll hire you! :roll: I get it now, that's it - we just need to hire another VAR to walk us through the great :^o help file! We had no idea the F keys did anything on keyboards. =;

Thanks for your help today everyone - I'm ending the dialogue on this for me and my company. We appreciate the insight. We all know there's a problem, so let's drop it and move on.

Too bad DenSter doesn't live near us, he could come and press it for us! :-#

DenSter · 2005-06-22

wow... lots of hostility and skepticism..... :shock: Dude, the matrix chair thing was intended as a joke. That stuff is movie magic, that could never happen!

I spend a considerable amount of personal time each day on these forums to answer any questions you may have. I hope you recognize that I care, because I do not get paid for anything I write on these forums. Yes I do work for a solution center, but these comments about not caring are way off the mark.

Now back to the documentation issue. As I am sure you know, 9 out of 10 user manuals gather dust on some obscure shelf in some back room. Navision made the choice to put all their documentation effort into the F1 help, so it is readily available to all users.

All that the user needs to do is spend some time in searching F1 help. Navision is a very comprehensive ERP system that has lots of functionality, it just takes time to learn.

As a side note, we are involved with Microsoft in an effort to create online learning material. We have a team of technical writers creating manuals and video material to learn all MBS products, not just Navision.

BestTechWriter · 2005-06-22

Savatage of Long Island - SO that's how we get complete info - print it and it magically fills itself in. We are not saying documentation doesn't exist - we are saying GOOD USEFUL documentation doesn't exist.

It's funny, you must be a VAR - that was her solution. When we mentioned how incomplete the help was and that it was missing a lot of the basics, she (our VAR) suggested putting the online help in a book format. So, we printed 100 of them, however during that printing the information gaps and incompleteness wasn't magically filled. It must only happen when she prints it at her office...

Again, thanks for the great advice everyone ](*,) .

DenSter · 2005-06-22

Savatage · 2005-06-22

BestTechWriter wrote:

Savatage of Long Island - SO that's how we get complete info - print it and it magically fills itself in. We are not saying documentation doesn't exist - we are saying GOOD USEFUL documentation doesn't exist.

It's funny, you must be a VAR

I never said it was complete info..but it was what I used as an END USER to answer some questions when I needed help. 9 out of 10 times it did. The other time I would look on forums or ask my NSC.

When we got Navision our NSC gave us the basic training and I took it upon myself to read the Help files, to Search the forums & find as much documentation as possible.

I post here and other forums because not too long ago I needed alot of help understanding Navision as a newbie & I'd figured I would try to give back some of what I have learned. You can't learn it all in a day.

None of us get paid for this so I do not understand the hostility.

BestTechWriter wrote:

however during that printing the information gaps and incompleteness wasn't magically filled. It must only happen when she prints it at her office...

Again, thanks for the great advice everyone ](*,) .

I can't give you a sure-fire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time.
Herbert Bayard Swope
US editor & journalist (1882 - 1958)

Savatage · 2005-06-22

otterhound wrote:

To the poster who asked what isn't in the help, I'll give you an example: how do you use non-posting GL accounts? Do you always need to use a beginning total and ending total account? Are they necessary to get reports to sum correctly? That is nowhere in the help. There is no conceptual end user discussion anywhere.

Ooooh I just saw this one.

If you read the post in order..asking what isn't the help telling you I think is the proper first response.

I also know that not all NSC are equal - but what are you paying them for if they don't answer those questions for you? Or even better, set it up for you and explain what, how & why they did it.

you can always have more documentation.that goes for everything..to answer every question from every type of company would be as big as a set of encyclopedias.

it's funny my partner & I were just discussing yesterday what a huge improvement Navision is over our last package. Not eveyone's experience can be the same.

Kowa · 2005-06-23

When this software was still called Navision Financials, there were printed manuals available as well as pdfs on the installation discs. These were written in a style that explained the fields, but did not explain the Do's and Don'ts in a particular situation. And this is exactly the problem. The circumstances under which navision is employed vary to such an extent that it is practically impossible to write a manual that really helps the end user when he is starting off. Hardly anyone I talked to ever read these old manuals. If someone wanted to use them you always had to tell them " The manual was written for standard navision, but you got this add-on, so forget about this and do that or read the other manual for the add-on " and so forth.

If a manual really is to be of use it needs to cater for the specifics of an
industry sector / branch of trade and have a total integration with the add-ons. I have never seen such a manual and probably never will.
With every new project I need all of my years of experience with Navision to get it going,and still, every time there is something new that I haven't encountered before.

BestTechWriter · 2005-06-30

Well, hot off the press. I have great news to report on documentation. Our new VAR was able to order us the official books from Microsoft Business Solutions. So, we complained about the online help, so I wnated to post my joy about the books...we have the actual Training books - The entire 10 book set for about $1,500, I think it was that the VAR receives.

They are well written, in clear ENGLISH with exercises at the end of each chapter & a disk, which we probably won't use (the disk). We'll play around in our QA environment. Not sure why we didn't get these earlier from the 1st VAR, but who knows. Maybe they weren't ready.

Anyway, we are pleased. And it has a few flow charts showign you where the info is going to and from. Books: Navision 4.0 Introduction: 8324A, FIANCIALS 1:8384A. So, there's 10 in this series. The audience says 'MBS Solutions Partners' employees selling, implementing, and supporting Navision'. So, thank goodness for this new VAR that was able to get their hands on these. They were back ordered.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED, THE IBSN: 0-7580-8431-5, MBS8405ACP, Microsoft Business Solutions, One Lone Tree Rd., Fargo, ND 58104

GOOD BYE ONLINE HELP...HELLO NEW, BOOKS!

BestTech

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Categories

Documentation = End User Assistance

Comments