Allow RTC to be used with the native C/SIDE database

Alex_Chow · 2009-12-17

Yes, I know SQL is the future. It's great for techies. But it's not great for business owners where cost is always an factor.

Forcing new prospects to purchase SQL and NAV license, in addition, the new hardware required. Microsoft is pricing NAV above and beyond offerings by SAP B1, MAS200, etc.

There's got to be an alternative for users who does not want to use SQL but would still like to use RTC. This will especially be true when native client is discontinued by version 7.

I've posted a feedback here. Agree? Or not?

https://connect.microsoft.com/dynamicss ... kID=520992

DenSter · 2009-12-17

That link says "page not found"

Marije_Brummel · 2009-12-17

What database does SAP B1 use?

You can buy a special SQL license for NAV. Is that not cheap enough?

For small businises you can use SQL Expres and a 2 GB database will run fine on a cheap RAID5 server. (Did I say that out loud?

)...

Alex_Chow · 2009-12-17

for the US, the SQL standard with NAV, it's $190 per user. So we would need to add $190 IN ADDITION to the per user price.

Up to a certain user, it's cheaper to buy SQL Server outright than to continue with the SQL under NAV's price list. At this point, I'm not even sure if you can transfer the NAV SQL licenses to regular SQL licenses.

On another note, how do you link sites with https so other people can get to it?

David_Singleton · 2009-12-17

They have not touched the Native DB with any enhancements since they bought the company. So I doubt there is even the slightest chance this will ever happen.

Sorry.

Alex_Chow · 2009-12-17

There's always hope.

Marije_Brummel · 2009-12-18

There is investment (pricing) and return on investment (working more efficient with ERP) and there is the speed of the implementation track.

Is SAP B1 really cheaper in both? Someone should investigate that. Visit 10 happy users of 10 midmarket ERP systems and compare both...

kriki · 2009-12-18

Mark Brummel wrote:

For small businises you can use SQL Expres and a 2 GB database will run fine on a cheap RAID5 server. (Did I say that out loud? )...

[-X [-X [-X

At least you could add that it is ONLY for small DB's AND you need to stay cheap AND performance problems is the least of the problems.
True : on a <2GB DB, probably even a slow disk is fast enough.

Marije_Brummel · 2009-12-18

I don't see your point. A lot of Dynamics NAV users have databases smaller thatn 2GB.

If they are larger than 2GB on NAV they would have a larger database with another package as well. This is about comparing ERP packages and pricing.

Alex_Chow · 2009-12-18

Yes, most smaller companies that does not use item tracking will have databases smaller than 2GB.

I guess if we utilize Mark's method of using SQL Express, it resolves having to purchase SQL separately.

I was under the impression that SQL Express is only for 1 user installed on a workstation?

Nonetheless, it would still be a nice option if we can use RTC in the native database.

Marije_Brummel · 2009-12-20

http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2008 ... mpare.aspx

It even allows 4GB. But 'only' 1 GB of ram, but that is 25% of the database.

No SQL Agent so no scheduled maintenance and backups.

Like Native.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Native database, but I also love the open character of SQL Server.

Belias · 2009-12-21

native db won't be "discontinued", but DISMISSED in "nav 7" or at maximum "nav 8".
At least, this is what i've heard in a meeting in MS italy some weeks ago...maybe we will be able to upgrade an old fdb file with the new executable, but this is only my thought...
As the db will be dismissed, i don't think they'll even think about enabling it to RTC...too bad, anyway

rdebath · 2009-12-21

WTH is "dismissed" supposed to mean!

... misusing a plain English word. What is the Marketing department trying to hide this time ?

Does this mean we lose local databases too?
Are they going to put the temp tables on the server?

That's a point; in a three tier setup which machine has the temp tables ...

Belias · 2009-12-21

what the italian MS guy wanted to say is that there will not be the fdb file in the installation cd of nav 7 or nav 8 at maximum...anyway...i don't think that for this reason temptables will go on the server :-k

rdebath · 2009-12-21

Hmmm, "Italian". Maybe that would be "retired" in English marketing speek.

The "temp tables to the server" thing was because all temp tables as actually Native database tables in local "database" files. So if you were really getting rid of the Native DB completely you'd have to make other arrangements for temp tables. The only other obvious DB available is the server therefore ... ouch.

Belias · 2009-12-21

rdebath wrote:

Hmmm, "Italian". Maybe that would be "retired" in English marketing speek.

Hey, it was an italian meeting in microsoft italy, the relator was italian and the attendants too...what did you expect

rdebath wrote:

So if you were really getting...

maybe do you think i am from microsoft?i am not

Actually i don't think that temptables uses fdb files to be created on the client...but maybe i am wrong, if so, can you explain it to me, please?

rdebath · 2009-12-21

Okay, okay; ye olde english.

So if one were really getting rid of the Native DB completely one would have to make other arrangements for temp tables.

Better

Yes, temp tables are Native tables and they're stored in files on the PC that the "classic" client is running. There's no reason to believe that the files are anything but cut down fdb files.

For example, on a temp table (currency table) this works fine; on a SQL DB table it throws an error.

TB.Code := '1';
TB."Last Date Modified" := 12121212D;
TB.INSERT;

eg: (2) If you run a form or do other sorting with a temp table you get the Native DB sort order not the SQL DB.
eg: (3) The "SQL Data Type" property has no effect on temp tables. ie: setting it to integer doesn't mean that text codes cause errors.

Still, unless somebody here knows, I think I'm going to have to check what happens with temp tables in 3 tier; once I get it working again! :x

dmccrae · 2009-12-21

A couple of points:

1. No, the RTC will never run against the Native database.
2. I can't comment on the removal of the Native database from the product, but expect a clear messaging around it over the next few months.
3. The temp table implementation is separate from the Native database and has no relationship to .fdb files; it is a common implementation both to the SQL and Native database platforms. Temp tables always reside on the same machine as the NAV Server process, independent of the RTC and SQL machines.

Belias · 2009-12-21

thanks for the clear answers :thumbsup:

Alex_Chow · 2009-12-21

Fine... RTC won't work on native... I get it.

For cost reasons, how about releasing some whitepapers about implementing NAV w/ RTC on SQL Server Express?

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Allow RTC to be used with the native C/SIDE database

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