Upgrade 5.0 to 5.0 SP1

jnario · 2008-03-26

Hello Upgrade Experts,

Need expert advise on the upgrade. We are currently on NAV 3.70 version and we are planning to upgrade to NAV 5.0, since this is a major requirement in order to upgrade to NAV 2009 or 6.0.

Here are my questions:

1.) With the announcement of NAV 5.0 SP1 which I'm not so sure when the exact date of release. Is it advisable to wait for the NAV 5.0 SP1 upgrade or can I just go ahead and schedule an upgrade from NAV 3.70 to NAV 5.0. ?

2.) If I decided to upgrade to NAV 5.0.

A) Is it a major or minor upgrade from NAV 5.0 to NAV 5.0 SP1?

In the future, can I just upgrade directly from NAV 5.0 to NAV 2009 (6.0) without upgrading to NAV 5.0 SP1?

Please advise.

Thanks

Joel Nario

DenSter · 2008-03-26

1: That depends on the timeframe of the customer. If they want it NOW then you can't wait. If they wouldn't mind waiting for SP1 then you wait. There's no technical reason to suggest either one, other than the fact that SP1 will implement certain fixes for certain problems that oyu might want to take advantage of. Get with your partner to discuss the details.

2A: I would personally say minor, but there are some tricky bits and pieces, so you need to be aware of what it all involved.

2B: You can upgrade directly to 2009 from any version, it's just more work from older versions. The more you do now, the less you have to do when 2009 comes out. 5.0 SP1 will be closer to 2009 in functionality than 3.70. It will also be closer to 2009 than regular 5.0, but how much is anybody's guess at this point

kriki · 2008-03-26

[Topic moved from Navision Exams & Certification forum to Navision forum]

davmac1 · 2008-03-26

We were told at Convergence that there are 300 changes in SP1 - degree of difficulty - I don't know, but 300 changes is a significant number.
SP1 is meant to be available by the end of March, but partnersource will be down for the last 3 days of March.

Waldo · 2008-03-27

davmac1 wrote:

We were told at Convergence that there are 300 changes in SP1 - degree of difficulty - I don't know, but 300 changes is a significant number.
SP1 is meant to be available by the end of March, but partnersource will be down for the last 3 days of March.

Lol - that means it will only be available the 1st of April

.
Anyway, the sad thing is: only the W1, the Danish and a third version (which I forgot) will be available. I wonder when the upgrade toolkit will be available (if there will be any).

There are only a few functional changes (additions) in SP1, so I don't expect that a data migration will be necessary. Probably upgrading the code (to fix the 300 bugs and to have the small additions) will be enough ... .

David_Singleton · 2008-03-27

Waldo wrote:

davmac1 wrote:

We were told at Convergence that there are 300 changes in SP1 - degree of difficulty - I don't know, but 300 changes is a significant number.
SP1 is meant to be available by the end of March, but partnersource will be down for the last 3 days of March.

Lol - that means it will only be available the 1st of April .
Anyway, the sad thing is: only the W1, the Danish and a third version (which I forgot) will be available. I wonder when the upgrade toolkit will be available (if there will be any).

There are only a few functional changes (additions) in SP1, so I don't expect that a data migration will be necessary. Probably upgrading the code (to fix the 300 bugs and to have the small additions) will be enough ... .

Hmm releasing 5.00 SP1 on April first. Why does that sound similar to something I head last year :-k

Since there should not be any need for a data upgrade, there probably wont be an upgrade tool kit right?

Waldo · 2008-03-27

Right.

ara3n · 2008-03-28

jnario wrote:

Hello Upgrade Experts,

Need expert advise on the upgrade. We are currently on NAV 3.70 version and we are planning to upgrade to NAV 5.0, since this is a major requirement in order to upgrade to NAV 2009 or 6.0.

Here are my questions:

1.) With the announcement of NAV 5.0 SP1 which I'm not so sure when the exact date of release. Is it advisable to wait for the NAV 5.0 SP1 upgrade or can I just go ahead and schedule an upgrade from NAV 3.70 to NAV 5.0. ?

2.) If I decided to upgrade to NAV 5.0.

A) Is it a major or minor upgrade from NAV 5.0 to NAV 5.0 SP1?

In the future, can I just upgrade directly from NAV 5.0 to NAV 2009 (6.0) without upgrading to NAV 5.0 SP1?

Please advise.

Thanks

Joel Nario

50. US SP1 has been released.

News:
https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource ... /50sp1.htm

Download page:
https://mbs.microsoft.com/partnersource ... V50SP1.htm

Arndt_Loermann · 2008-03-28

hello, don't use SP1 !!! without testing in big implementations..our tests will be failed ...

Alex_Chow · 2008-03-28

Arndt Loermann wrote:

hello, don't use SP1 !!! without testing in big implementations..our tests will be failed ...

??? What test?

David_Singleton · 2008-03-29

Alex Chow wrote:

Arndt Loermann wrote:

hello, don't use SP1 !!! without testing in big implementations..our tests will be failed ...

??? What test?

I think what he means is a reference to the removal of flow fields. How will this affect big databases (500Gig+) and what level of testing has been made on databases of this size.

Arndt_Loermann · 2008-03-29

1. insert the views of big databases takes a long time (MainSiftIndex yes)
2. example
tablekey salesorder, salesorder line nummer, type
only! the filtering with setcurrentkey with all! key fields will be performant (index-seek) all other option will use as a scan ..

davmac1 · 2008-03-30

They should have tested this with big databases already, but we still should do our own due diligence to make sure we have no problems.

Waldo · 2008-03-30

Keep in mind that an already "tuned" database on SQL will probably need some "retuning" when going to SP1.

kriki · 2008-03-30

Waldo wrote:

Keep in mind that an already "tuned" database on SQL will probably need some "retuning" when going to SP1.

I am really afraid of that.
Especially about the part "how-to-explain-your-customer-he-needs-another-tuning".

Waldo · 2008-03-30

kriki wrote:

Waldo wrote:

Keep in mind that an already "tuned" database on SQL will probably need some "retuning" when going to SP1.

I am really afraid of that.
Especially about the part "how-to-explain-your-customer-he-needs-another-tuning".

Hm, it's a new SQL handling, so it's rather obvious, no?

kriki · 2008-03-30

Waldo wrote:

kriki wrote:

Waldo wrote:

Keep in mind that an already "tuned" database on SQL will probably need some "retuning" when going to SP1.

I am really afraid of that.
Especially about the part "how-to-explain-your-customer-he-needs-another-tuning".

Hm, it's a new SQL handling, so it's rather obvious, no?

For us, yes.
But most customers reason in other ways : I just want to upgrade Navision, why does that new version need another SQL-tuning.

Waldo · 2008-03-30

That's not going to be easy, indeed.
But that's the price you have to pay if you want to upgrade to a better product.. .

DenSter · 2008-03-30

It's unfortunate, but something customers need to consider before upgrading to SP1. Having to pay attention to their tuned tables (doesn't have to be a full re-tuning project) is one of the consequences of going for the upgrade.

On the other hand, the removel of SIFT tables is supposed to speed it all up right, so would make the system even faster. Tuned indexes would still be tuned, I don't really see how there would be a lot of work to "re-tune", it should be pretty smooth in most cases.

bbrown · 2008-03-30

Been doing some experimenting/testing on a technical upgrade. As expected, the real performance improvement is on insert/modify of tables with sift.

DenSter · 2008-03-31

yes that is indeed the expected result, because there are no more T-SQL SIFT triggers to run at all. What still worries me is SIFT performance on the really big implementations.

Not regular inserts and modifications, but flowfield speed, CALCSUMs and CALCFIELDS in code.

kriki · 2008-03-31

The reason of the writing-speed is because SQL-triggers are slow. If you read the SQL-forums, you will see they advice against it for performance reasons.

I did some heavy testing on reading speed:
I created a table with Item No.,Location Code,Posting Date,Quantity and made a matrix form with in rows items (50 items) and in the columns the locations (I think 5 locations) and I created 1 record per item per location per date.
And for a few years it is very fast. When I arrived at about 200 years, it got slow Because for each item+location, SQL had to sum hundreds of records for each cell. (I also had ONLY 200MB as cache on SQL).
To speed it up, I created a new index I put BEFORE the original in which I removed the Posting Date. I only maintained the SIFTIndex but not the SQLindex. And if I didn't use a datefilter, it was again very fast. But of course I lost some writing speed.

Another thing I noticed : bulk-inserts (5.0SP1) are about 10 times as fast as normal inserts (pre 5.0SP1)

ara3n · 2008-03-31

Does BEFORE the index or AFTER matter?

DenSter · 2008-04-01

How big was your database? I'm working with a 600GB database and one that's even a little bigger than that.

kriki · 2008-04-01

ara3n wrote:

Does BEFORE the index or AFTER matter?

In THEORY (and my test pointed out that it worked also in reality [with the 5.0SP1 BETA at least. I didn't try yet with the definitive version]) it should NOT matter.
Navision takes the view that is best fitting in case of flowfields,but helping a little never hurts.

Upgrade 5.0 to 5.0 SP1

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